Episode 133 - Carla Campos, Travel & Tourism Strategy & Sustainability Specialist
Soul of Travel is testament to dedication – to a place, to a concept, and to a mission that pushes us past our peak toward the next mountain of purpose. This week’s episode speaks to our commitment to resilience and long-term growth and their role in creating a travel and tourism landscape that creates a positive impact on the world.
This week’s Soul of Travel Podcast guest is award-winning travel and tourism executive Carla Campos, who served as the Government of Puerto Rico’s Tourism Minister through recent crises and shifts to be the driving force behind the island’s transformation into a compelling and avant-garde destination. Through the implementation of destination management plans, sound public policy, and building strategic public-private alliances, the island has been able to bounce back and report record-breaking travel and tourism performance repeatedly.
Through her own consulting practice, Carla supports governments and organizations as a destination manager, strategist, and sustainability specialist. Carla’s practical experience in tourism development throughout Latin America and the Caribbean has positioned her as a fiercely determined and purpose-driven industry leader capable of transforming challenging circumstances as catalysts for tourism growth.
Carla is a strong supporter of women’s leadership in travel and tourism and believes that sustainability must serve as a pillar for operational excellence in travel and tourism.
Changing Definitions of “Sustainable Tourism and Travel”
Carla recalls that when she began the Sustainable Destination Management Program at George Washington University, the industry was in a place of transition from the concept of “eco-tourism” – which has a limited lens – into the world of “sustainable tourism.” Travel and tourism recognized its ability to positively impact economies and people’s lives, beyond ecological sustainability.
And now? We are expanding the lens even further toward terms like “regenerative travel.”
At the heart of it, Carla explains, is finding a way to have a positive impact and being responsible and aware of how your actions impact others.
Ten years ago, folks talked about getting beyond the doors of hotels in all-inclusive resorts. The conversation has since shifted into a discovery process — rather than a product of the diversification of the tourism offering.
That’s where Carla found her sweet spot.
“It’s not just about the product. It’s that the people that are making decisions need to be able to have a clear vision of the kind of tourism that they want for this space. And they need to be able to make decisions in a way that is aligned with that vision.”
Destination Management
Private-public sector partnerships are central to the effective and sustainable management of destinations. Carla explains it’s essential to bring the different stakeholders together and help them effectively communicate with one another, creating a system in which decision-makers hold positive impact and their own goals in mind.
Carla’s own role shifted from a facilitator in these types of partnerships to havin the responsibility of leading a destination – Puerto Rico – where tourism was in a mature state when she took over as Tourism Minister.
She questioned what “tourism” meant during her tenure, navigating her responsibilities in negotiating and deciding which products would go into the market that reflected sustainability even when mass tourism was an inevitable part of the existing system. She engaged cruise lines in relief efforts after hurricanes, earthquakes, and everything in between.
Creating Opportunities from Chaos
We have been through so many large-scale crises in the travel and tourism industry, but Carla shares the unique story of Puerto Rico and the incredible crisis management that
Mere months after eradicating the imminent health threat from the Zika virus, hurricanes Irma and Maria devastated the island. All the plans that were created post-Zika had to be abandoned as the entire industry – and the entire island and its people – needed to address threats to wellbeing and safety. But Carla was still responsible for holding the long-term vision of tourism on the island while addressing the immediate needs at hand.
Puerto Rico still needed to market itself as a destination, but institutional restructuring was required to get there.
Carla helped lead a new perspective: To leverage Puerto Rico’s place in the global headlines and turning crises into opportunity through empathy and connection, and deliver a call to action that invited folks to visit the island and connect with Puerto Ricans.
Carla started by leading the efforts in voluntourism (led by local communities), and Puerto Rico experienced record-breaking arrivals to the island in 2019, two short years after the most devastating hurricane in living memory.
The overall mindset and intent required to seek wisdom, empathy, and forward momentum in the most difficult moments as women in leadership positions in travel and tourism. Carla has this message for Soul of Travel listeners:
“You have to have the ability to lead through crisis confidently.” (And be sure to tune in at 45:30 for a longer message meant just for you.)
Beyond the False Summits
As women leaders, Carla invites us to shift our thinking about our careers and our impact and mission beyond getting to a destination, a ceiling, or a peak.
It may be time to envision a more expansive way of being, to identify where your current expertise can create an even larger impact.
For Carla, she realized that working in an individual destination was not the North Star she once thought it was. She sees a potential to continuously build on her career into the corporate world, affecting decision-making with sustainability practices at the helm.
“I was driven by instinct through the process and being able to listen to my instincts, be clear on my purpose, to have a lot of clarity on what my purpose was, and then decisions and opportunities along the line sort of fit in based on whether or not they were aligned with my purpose, with my values, with who I am as an individual, with who I am as a person, with who I am as a professional.”
Soul of Travel Episode 133 At a Glance
Christine and Carla discuss:
Sustainable tourism and shifting perspectives
Mindset shifts we can make when responding to crises
Navigating transitions in our career and personal life
Experiencing early career success
Aligning our work with our purpose, values, and identity
Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Carla Campos.
LOVE these soulful conversations? We rely on listener support to produce our podcast! Make a difference by making a donation on PayPal.
Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #9: Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation.
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #11: Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Sustainable Development Goal #16: Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Connect with Carla on LinkedIn!
Get your copy of The Book of Joy!
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
Subscribe & Review on Apple Podcasts
Are you a Soul of Travel subscriber? Click here to subscribe to Apple Podcasts, so you don’t miss the latest episodes!
Listener reviews help expand our reach and help us rise up the ranks! Rate and review your favorite episodes on Apple Podcasts or your preferred podcast app.
Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Carla Campos (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
Learn more about Lotus Sojourns
Looking for ways to be a part of the community? Learn more here!
Find Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community for like-hearted women.
Follow us on Instagram: @lotussojourns and @souloftravelpodcast
Become a supporter of Soul of Travel!
WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of 2022’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.
Soul of Travel Episode 133 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, women leaders in travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Join me, Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with my community of travelers, exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. We might all agree that we are missing travel right now. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you'll hear the story of industry professionals and seasoned travelers who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers. This is the soul of travel.
Christine: Carla Campos is an award-winning travel and tourism executive who served as the government of Puerto Rico's tourism minister, a destination manager, strategist, and sustainability specialist. Carla's practical experience in tourism development throughout Latin America and the Caribbean have positioned her as a fiercely determined and purpose-driven industry leader, capable of transforming challenging circumstances as catalyst for tourism growth. Carla is recognized as the key driving force behind the recent transformation of Puerto Rico as an avant-garde destination and redefining tourism in Puerto Rico with unparalleled vision and stewardship. Under Carla's leadership, Puerto Rico's tourism sector faced and overcame a number of historical challenges, including Zika, hurricanes, Irma and Maria Earthquakes, political unrest, and most recently, the Covid 19 pandemic. Through the implementation of destination management plans, sound, public policy, and building strategic public-private alliances, the island has been able to bounce back and report record breaking travel and tourism performance repeatedly.
Christine: Currently, Carla leverages her proven track record and expertise to provide practical data driven and strategic solutions to the challenges facing developers, businesses, and tourism boards in the travel and tourism space. She is a native Puerto Rican, a strong supporter of women's leadership in travel and tourism, and believes that sustainability must serve as a pillar for operational excellence in travel and tourism. In our conversation, Carla shares how her perspective on sustainable tourism has shifted over the years. The important mindset shift we can make when responding to a crisis and what navigating transitions in our career and personal life can feel like, especially after experiencing a peak of success early in your career. Love these soulful conversations. We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation on PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Carla Campos.
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I am very excited today to be joined by Carla Campos, who I have been connected with through some women travel leader groups. And we kept kind of popping into each other's realm over the past couple of years in random Zoom calls. And every time she pops into my screen, I'm so excited. And we had a, a great conversation a couple years ago, although it har is hard to believe that it was that long ago and have just been able to stay in touch and in connection. And she's someone whose work really inspires me and also your passion and enthusiasm for the industry. So I'm really excited to have you here today to share your expertise and, and that passion with my listeners.
Carla: Thank you so much for having me, Christine. And, um, it has been awesome to, to be able to meet you in those random encounters that, that we have. And I do follow your podcast and very much feed off of the inspirational stories of so many women leaders that have already been through this platform. So it's really an honor to, to be able to, to be here with you as well.
Christine: Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, to begin our conversation, I'd love for you to just share a little bit about who you are in the space of travel right now, and then we'll go and talk a little bit more about your background and, uh, lead into the rest of our conversation.
Carla: Sure. So I live and was raised in Puerto Rico as a Caribbean girl that had tourism all around her. Uh, I obviously knew of tourism in the way that my family, um, showed me tourism, which is the very traditional mass tourism kind of travel. And throughout my journey and, and growing up and studying abroad, I was able to discover that there was something a little more about tourism that you could positively have an effect or an impact on destinations, on people on the environment. So slowly I started to grow, uh, a very keen interest in, in this sector and we'll, we'll get into a little bit of my background, but I am currently a travel and tourism professional. Um, mostly focused on strategy and sustainability. So I support, um, governments, executives, um, destinations and organizations and business to sort of problem solve and, and fix the big problems around travel and tourism with sustainability at the forefront of what I do. So I do have my my own consulting practice at the moment, um, and I'm really enjoying being part of very many teams that are my clients' teams.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much. And I love, uh, I love your ability to kind of look at things from that bigger, bigger vision and perspective and real, really be able to kind of analyze and like you said, create strategies and have a, a like wider dive and then narrow in and focus on what really can be solved. And not always thinking about problems, but thinking about opportunities. I think that's one of my favorite things about the conversations that we have. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you have a real gift for being able to frame things that way, so we'll explore that later as well. Um, and you shared a little bit about your background, but how did you realize that tourism is the place that you wanted to go to create a positive impact and really start to engage in those things that you were aware of as you began to understand the different sides of tourism?
Carla: Yeah, so you know, those people that have it all figured out early in life and they know exactly what they're gonna do and they have a goal and from an early age, they're able to manifest it. I was not that, I was quite the opposite of that. Um, I went to school at Villanova University in Pennsylvania and I had absolutely no clue what I was going to study. I went in through liberal arts and I was like, well, maybe I'll end up in communications or something along the lines. Um, I ended up having, uh, finishing a bachelor's in sociology and a concentration in environmental studies. I really had no clue what I was gonna do with that. My family probably thought I was gonna become a lawyer or a psychologist, something along those lines. And I personally had no clue what I wanted to do, but something did give me a little bit of light and anchored me in, in, in my career path.
Carla: Now, looking back at it, 20 years later, I'm like, well, that thing has been the driving force or, or that, um, the ever-present theme in my career. I remember going to a, a guidance counselor in college pretty much with this question, I have no clue what I wanna do. And after a lot of conversation and discussion and soul searching in that session, um, this counselor comes back to me and says, well, I don't know what you're going to do, uh, but you're gonna be in the helping field. And obviously my first answer was like, what job application is that <laugh>? Um, and there is no, and, and essentially I was able to understand that I am passionate about fulfilling my purpose through work, and I feel that the impact I wanna have in this world is through what I do and, and, and through, uh, my career.
Carla: So for me, helping isn't just about helping people. I, I had a genuine interest in an understanding how I could positively contribute to improving the environment, how I could positively be contribute to, although societal issues that I had been able to, to deep dive deep in, in my sociology bachelor's. Um, and, and that sort of led me to understand, well, how, how can I have a positive impact and how can I help, um, in a sector that I feel called to? And then that's when I realized that I had traveled my whole life, and I really enjoyed being able to engage and meet with people all around the world and, and get to know different cultures and get to know different people. And a lot of my BA values had been shaped around travel tolerance for individuals, tolerance for the environment around us, that kind of diplomacy that comes from being able to see the world.
Carla: So it, I was able to study and abroad in Australia and Australia at that point in time was really at the forefront of sustainable tourism, uh, management. I didn't know those terms. I just knew that the kind of tourism that I enjoyed in Australia was very different to the kind of tourism that I had enjoyed with my family. Slowly but surely, I was able to then, um, get to DWS program for tourism administration, master's in tourism administration, and found out that all this concept that had been built in my head around how you could impact positively through travel and tourism was actually a field of work in and of itself. I, I did not know about it before. Um, and I was able to work, um, and, and, and study at gw, sustainable destination management program that I completed that master's and I went on to do international development in sustainable tourism, worked in Latin America and the Caribbean, doing everything from grassroots development, um, business building and product development, working with agriculture and fishermen and showing them how they could diversify their economic, um, livelihoods, uh, through international development projects programs.
Carla: That then led to, to me, developing a specialty in destination management through sustainable tourism. And I was fortunate and honored enough to be able to reach that goal that I had in my life, which was at some point be able to come back to Puerto Rico, which is my homeland, and help in destination management locally. So after 15 years of being abroad, I, I returned to Puerto Rico and then I took the helm of the government of Puerto Rico's tourism ministry or secretary. So I was essentially the, the minister of tourism for the island or what some may refer to as director or secretary. And it was an exciting time in my career, four years of intense destination management work and essentially doing everything that I had envisioned I could do. Um, through very interesting times, which was that period between 2017 and, and 2020 starting 2021, I started with Zika, ended with a pandemic and everything in between, exciting times and, and we can get into that as well. Uh, but it, it's been a beautiful journey and a beautiful career that I've been able to have, and I'm really looking forward and working to that next phase of my career.
Christine: Yeah, thank you so much for, for sharing all of that. There were so many points of resonance where I feel like we have had similar, uh, maps of our, of our journey, of, of this like very random journey. <laugh>, I really resonate with, you know, as a a kid, I grew up in Montana in a, um, place where it was also very touristed. So this was kind of, that was my exposure to tourism. And I think my catalyst to sustainable travel as well, because I just noticed how imbalanced tourism felt as someone residing in a destination and, and how the dynamic shifted with the seasonality of tourism and how sometimes it felt like my home and sometimes it felt like a place of service. And it was such a, a dynamic that I just felt like wasn't, it just didn't feel right, but, but much like you, I didn't really maybe have terminology for it.
Christine: And, um, I also kind of was all over the place with my education. And I think our guidance counselors probably loved us both about the same <laugh>, because I remember walking into mine and I'm like, I have enough credits to graduate with two degrees. Can you please tell me which one it shall be? Because I have nothing. Like I love everything. I can't nail something down. And I ended up, I have a, also, my undergraduate is in sociology with a minor in criminology, so a little different, but that's kind of funny that we landed there because I think for me took that first, so sociology class, it was very eye-opening that the way I thought about the world, and it was really helpful for me to say, oh, this isn't, you know, just a, a course of study. It's kind of a way of seeing and analyzing and seeing how systems work together, which, you know, then really ended up supporting my, the, my master's from George Washington as well, where, you know, being able to kind of look at things from these holistic ecosystems and see how all of these parts work together.
Christine: Um, so I just love that we kind of had so many of these similar ebbs and flows and, um, and then also landing in the world of sustainable travel. I had a little exposure before I went to George Washington University, but it was similar to when you were in Australia. Like I would see people modeling a way of travel, or they would tell a story and I, and they would inter, they would like bring in conservation or working with communities or all these different things. And I'm like, oh, that's travel, that's incredible. And I was also like, that is what I wish would've been happening in Montana. Like what would it would would've looked like to have developed with some of these fundamentals in mind. And so, yeah, I just, I love the, the kind of, um, similarities of our early paths in our careers because I, I think it really just shows that it's coming from who we are. You know, this was never a job. Like you said, your passion is this, this purpose and this purpose is executed through your work. And I feel the same, the same way. Like I, I, I really feel like I have to be doing this because of who I am, not just because it's a, a cool or interesting thing to do, but because it is like the only thing I can do. <laugh>
Carla: Brings me to tears, both to hear you and, and hear someone verbalize it in a way that makes so much sense to me. I think you're absolutely right. We're we all in some way, shape or form got into this as travelers ourself as being able to understand how we interact with the world. Um, and then from that, at least for me, and it sounds that for you, I was driven by instinct through the process and being able to listen to my instincts, be clear on my purpose, um, have a lot of clarity on what my purpose was, and then decisions and opportunities along the line sort of fit in based on whether or not they were aligned with my purpose, with my values, with who I am as an individual, with who I am as a person, with who I am as a professional.
Carla: And my skillsets funny that you mentioned the travel thing. I mean, I, I, I grew up in the Caribbean and my family is your traditional six person family, four, four siblings. Um, my dad loves cruising, so I, that's what I did as a child. <laugh>, that's the tourism that I knew. And then at some point I realized, well, I'm getting to these destinations and I'm getting off the ship, but we're staying in this, like these shops and bars that are right in front of it. And I had this curiosity, this urge, like, I wanna get to know what's beyond that, like, what is it? But I was never exposed to it very much. And then when I traveled to Australia or with my friends in college, then I had a backpack or a small suitcase, and I lived in a car for two weeks getting to know Tasmania. I'm like, wait, there's a, there's a different way to do tourism. And I think it will resonate with people in general, not just those of us that are in tourism. We need to find a way to be able to encourage other travelers to experience the world in different ways. And sometimes it's not with our technical terms, sometimes it's purely about experiences and the kind of life experiences people want to be happy in the world and that are available to them.
Christine: Yeah. I love that moment when I've brought, brought my business a few times to travel shows and I'll be talking with someone and like, that light goes off and you see that, they're like, oh my gosh, that is the, the type of travel I have been looking for, you know? And I'm typically surrounded by other, you know, mass tourism businesses and kind of in this corner it always seems. And, um, but people when they, when they hear like, I'm like, you know, we're gonna be moving really slowly through this destination. We might, we're gonna have maybe a homestay on this itinerary. We're connecting with artisans, um, and we're focusing on gender equity in this region. And, and people I think that have been longing for that connection, like you said, like what's behind the, the, the, this illusion that has been created for me in a destination that they really want that moment of connection, um, get really excited.
Christine: So I, I think, like you said, I, I've had a hard time talking about what I wanna do because I feel like it's such a feeling to communicate that to travelers. It's like if, you know, you know, which is not a really great marketing strategy <laugh>, but there is that moment when people understand that they do know and that it's a thing they're looking for. And they get very excited about the possibility of being guided through an experience like that or discovering a destination in that way. So I hope for listeners, if this is like a, a new concept and you're like, wait, I think I know, I think I know what they're talking about. And you get excited. Like there's so many places that luckily now and we'll go into this next, are really supporting this kind of discovery and this type of travel. Um, we both mentioned that we, um, graduated from George Washington University in their m t A program and focusing on sustainable destination management, which at the time that I graduated with that degree, I would say that's what I studied. And people will just look at me like, what did you just tell me You do. I have no idea what you're
Carla: Talking about. I think my parents still don't know
Christine: <laugh>. Yeah. My, my dad still does say I'm a travel agent because it's just like the easiest thing for him to understand of what I do <laugh>. Um, but uh, you know, we've been in conversations around sustainability now for quite some time. How has the definition of sustainability shifted for you over the years from when you started that program until today? And also how is it executed differently? You know, in from that time until now?
Carla: Super so much to talk about in this. Um, I remember when I got into the sustainable destination management program and I put a name to the kind of work that I wanted to be doing, which was sustainable tourism. The, we were currently in a transition in our industry at that point in time because just a year or two earlier people were talking about ecotourism. And there was this shift that was happening where people were realizing, wait, ecotourism kind of has a limited lens. Let's talk about sustainable tourism. Um, and that's the encompassing of not just environmental conservation, but also that travel can positively impact economies. It could positively impact people and people's quality of lives. And sort of that broadening of the understanding of what essentially responsible travel is all about and responsible tourism is all about. Um, and now we're seeing sort of a similar shift happening where people are starting to talk from, from sustainability, maybe we should be talking about regenerative travel.
Carla: Maybe we should be talking about some, a bigger lens to see it through. And I think it all boils down to not necessarily the terms that we're using, but at the heart of it, what is it? And at the heart of it, it's finding a way to have a positive impact, finding a way to be responsible, whether it, and, and you could take it to any industry, right? Like, what's the name of it? If you're buying locally sourced products at the supermarket, well that probably has a name, but it's just the essence of, of you being aware and cognizant about how the actions that you're taking in your day-to-day life have an impact on others. And, and I mention it because I remember that shift going on early in my career where there was a lot of education about explaining to people why we were talking about sustainable travel and sustainable tourism and not ecotourism.
Carla: And back then, and, and very early in my career, I interpreted sustainable tourism to be very much a product oriented thing. So the development of a more sustainable tourism offering. And at that point, I used to work in USAID funded projects, world bank initiatives, international development bank initiatives, where there was money being invested in destinations that I was working in in order to diversify the kind of tourism offering that destination had. So whether it the, um, in the Dominican Republic where I lived for, for quite a bit of time, that the model is the all-inclusive model of doing tourism. And 10 years ago we were starting to talk about, well, how can people go beyond the all-inclusive? How could people get beyond the doors of that hotel? What are they going to do beyond the doors in the hotel in an, in a country whose tourism industry has not been structured to receive people beyond the doors of the hotel?
Carla: Um, so I think that it, again, this discovery process of, of what things have meant in my career at different point in times, at the beginning of my career, it was very much a product oriented diversification of the tourism offering. And that's how I interpreted, or at least found that I could have a role in sustainable tourism. Later on, I realized, well, it's not just about the product. It's that the people that are making decisions need to be able to have a clear vision of the kind of tourism that they want for this space. And they need to be able to make decisions in a way that is aligned with that vision. And that's where my specialty then became destination management organizations and helping, uh, put together essentially public-private sector partnerships for the ma effective and sustainable management of destinations and bringing together those very different stakeholders to a table and finding ways in which they could communicate with each other that was effective and that would help everyone achieve these goals.
Carla: So I, I then started interpreting sustainability as well. We need to have decision makers be able to be aligned and vision and hubs tourism in, in the backbone of the initiatives or the kind of products that are being developed in the destination. And then I got to the, the, I would say like the peak of those responsibilities, which is you are now one responsible for making those decisions. I was no longer a consultant, um, that was developing product. I was no longer a facilitator of public-private partnerships for sustainable destination management. I had the responsibility of leading a destination and a destination like Puerto Rico that is a, let's say, mature destination and its lifecycle tourism and isn't new to the island. Um, and, and then that challenge, I had to internally ask myself, well, what does tourism mean in this role that I have when my responsibility isn't just developing product?
Carla: My responsibility is also approving new 300 room hotels that are going to get built. My responsibility is negotiating with airlines airlift to the destination. My responsibility is also negotiating with cruise lines. Um, and for me, I then had to say, well, I need to ingrain sustainability within the day-to-day decision making, and that is sustainability for me. So whether it was that my conversations and at the forefront of my conversation with the cruise lines, well, how can we expand home porting operations? Why? Because I want people to arrive to the island, not just visit the island on the day. So I, I was still talking about mass tourism, I was still talking about cruises, but I was talking about it, well how, how can I make this a little more responsible and more beneficial to the environment and to the destinations? I got the cruise lines engaged in all of the relief efforts for the island through all the situations that we went through covid, um, the earthquakes, the hurricanes, and everything in between our partners, which was traditional tourism partners.
Carla: The decisions we were making together had sustainability at the backbone of it. When I would negotiate with, um, airlines, then we'd talk about, well, what kind of airlift do we want to get the kind of traveler that is gonna be able to go all around the island, not to stay at the business hotels. Um, I need to be talking to low cost carrier airlines too. I need to be figuring out how to get these airlines to travel, not just to San Juan, but to the other airports. And that was sustainability for me. Um, with the hotels, it wasn't just about developing city hotels, it was like, well, a small town in Puerto Rico is not gonna be able to build a branded service hotel, but I still want people to go there. And I still want people to be able to get to know that part of the island and for that part of the island to be integrated in the, in the tourism sector.
Carla: So then what can we do in terms of lodging to get heads and beds over there? Cuz that's a way to get butts and seats with the airlines. I need to increase beds in order to increase airlines, but it's my quickest way of doing it. And that's where we sort of entered into a very strategic partnership with, um, the short term rental platforms in order for us to be able to, um, recover tax money directly from the platforms in exchange for a very productive partnership that allows us to expand the inventory of rooms. And we were able to double the amount of rooms in a period of three years in the island. Something that in 20 years hadn't been done, but you had to think outside the box. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that became sustainability for me. And that's why when I look at sustainability now, I don't think of that product development or I don't think of the kind of experiences I want people to have.
Carla: I think of the fact that all of these large travel and tourism co uh, corporations have the ability to make decisions. And actually in my, in my book, the responsibility of making decisions in a way that is productive, constructive, that builds for these destinations that they serve and, and also builds for the business because economic sustainability is one of the three pillars. So it's all about the bottom line as well. So I think that's how my to answer your question. That's, that's how my view on sustainability has evolved. And that's why I think that in the space of my career where I've been able to have all those different roles and see it from so many different perspectives, I, I understand that we need to be able to have people like you and me in the boardrooms to talk about day-to-day decision making that have to do with the shareholder and trust that have to do with bottom line productivity. Well, you can make responsible decisions while safeguarding all of that. And that's where I really see my role in the future and, and, and sort of where I'm, where I'm, I'm taking my career because there always needs, there always needs, need to be people that do that kind of product development, which is what we think of when we think of sustainable travel. But we need more people like you and me making executive decisions where they need to be made in, in a responsible and in a responsible way.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. That was, um, so incredible. I really wanna just take that chunk and share it with so many people because I think, um, I mean I think it's easy to start where we started because you do need a foundation in understanding sustainability and that that is really where you, where you start. Um, but this, this idea of looking at it from such a, a more holistic sense I think is really, really important. And I think a lot of innovations come out of that, just like you were sharing. And also, you know, as you were talking, I was just thinking, you know, there's always this, this, um, pushback around it not making business sense. But as you were talking, I was like, look at all of the way that business is growing in all these different areas and all these different ways for all of these different partners.
Christine: Um, like, it's such a great example of how it does work and make economic sense. So I really love, um, the depth that you walked us through that. Um, I appreciate that so much. Um, one of the things that you also mentioned was the, you know, the crisis management has really un you know, fortunately or unfortunately cuz we're gonna talk about mindset, been a huge part of your career. And, um, one of the things that you and I have talked about is how crisis really isn't an outlier anymore is is really something that is to be expected. We're, we're not going to be in the tourism industry or really any industry, but, um, you know, really related to tourism without a crisis happening and before or when I first got into the industry, you know, the risk management and crisis management sessions at conferences would be the ones I was just like, oh, I I do not wanna go in that room <laugh> and um, don't get
Carla: To news.
Christine: Yeah, yeah. And so, um, and, and it felt like something maybe you didn't actually have to go to because it's like, well the people that go there, you know, they're gonna deal with the crisis when it happens, if it happens. And, and I think now, you know, as I said, we're seeing it, it is a reality. So it's not really crisis management, it's just another situation of your daily business operations. Um, you know, that it's going to happen. So it's almost just erasing the word crisis altogether. It's just a part of your management strategy. Um, but I would love to hear from you a little bit about, you know, what, what was that like for you in your career and, and how were you able to kind of shift your mindset and move from it being challenges to opportunities and, and really creating opportunities from chaos
Carla: <laugh>,
Christine: Which is, I mean, that's a, a hard, or I mean that's maybe a dramatic term, but that is what happens. It's so accurate. We've all sat in chaos so accurate in the last three years. So <laugh>, it's
Carla: So accurate. Okay. Um, I'll start by by sort of telling the story of, of where I was at, right when I moved from the Dominican Republic to Puerto Rico and I was asked to be in government. Um, I had never voted before. I didn't come from politics and I was this very atypical person serving in government. Uh, I hadn't voted in Puerto Rico, I hadn't lived on the island. I wasn't engaged in politics. And usually those roles are assigned to people that in some way, shape or form were part of politics and getting that person elected. Um, and we can get to that later, but I essentially came back, um, to serve under the person that had been appointed by the governor. Uh, and my big challenge at that point in time was managing the big crisis of a lifetime for Puerto Rico at that moment, which was a very tiny mosquito and it was Zika and we almost forget about it now.
Carla: But Zika in Puerto Rico and in other destinations, I think to this day, has a very lasting and, and record breaking impact as compared to everything we've lived since. And we tend to, to forget it because we've been through so much since. So in my mind, I came back to Puerto Rico and I was going, this is, this is what I had in mind. I was like, well, I'm going to support the government in creating a destination development plan, helping to structure the management of that plan, and I need to manage this crisis as quickly as possible so I could get to that. That's what I, that, that's the logic that I had. But I came in and six months after, so this was January, 2017. By July, 2017, we had declared the end of the Zika epidemic. So I was super happy and I was like, all right, done over with.
Carla: Now let's work on bringing partners together and developing this destination management plan and, and figuring out what Puerto Rico's tourism destination is in May 20 somewhere we started having those conversations. And I may remember we've made a beautiful plan, um, presented it to the industry, got the industry all engaged. So I remember declaring the end of the Zika epidemic was July, September, 2017, was hurricanes Irma and Maria, largest natural disaster to come through the island in the last 100 years. The island was destroyed, the island was without power in some places for up to a year. Um, it was a very large disaster from which we are still recovering from. So that plan that I had spent, I don't know, the last three or four months working on and presenting to the industry, I quickly realized I was gonna have to scratch, um, together with the team that, that had been working on this.
Carla: And now we were gonna have to go into a full crisis management mode. Cuz now it, it wasn't about fixing a previous problem, it was about managing a real problem that we had at that point in time right there. So that's when I realized that it wasn't as much about the crisis, it was about being clear on the vision of what you want, despite anything that will happen. Where do you wanna take this tourism industry? Where do you wanna take this business? Where do you wanna take this destination? Having the right mindset, okay, as I'm doing that, as I'm going to get there, what is the mindset that we all need to have in order to get there? And finally it needs to be alright, I need to have strategy, I need to have core principles of how I'm going to do that. And none of that gets changed regardless of what happens, regardless of what crisis you're gonna have to manage.
Carla: And the crisis then just becomes a situation that is happening within your overall big vision, big, big vision of what you need to be doing. And I know this is all very theoretical, but it is important because what I quickly came to realize is that well after the hurricanes we had, um, and even before that, like the Uber crisis, the short-term rental situations, the, um, sargassum in Puerto Rico, after that, my then bas the governor was literally kicked out by the people in, in social and political unrest. Um, and the destination still needed to be able to promote itself internationally. Um, and, and we're not gonna get into the structure of how that happened because significant things happened in Puerto Rico with the creation of a destination marketing organization and sort of institutional restructuring in order to implement the strategy that I'm talking about. But so many things happened and, and then we had earthquakes, largest earthquakes in a hundred years as well.
Carla: And as I'm saying this, I'm like, oh my goodness, more will come. More did come at when, when the pandemic came around, that was 2020. I was just like, all right, okay, let's handle this. Because we had been exposed to so many situations in the past while everyone else was knee jerking, Puerto Rico was clear about the fact that this too shall pass. That this is yet another situation that we need to be able to manage within what we wanna accomplish in the big sense. Um, and actually because of all that experience and the fact that crisis became the new normal crisis became just the way that we were operating it, we started to lead a vision for crisis as something that needed to be leveraged as opportunity for growth. So in each of these situations, we would then look at it and say, all right, where's my competitive advantage with this?
Carla: And whether it was that before the hurricanes, often people confused Costa Rica and Puerto Rico and no one kind of knew the difference between them. And I would sit with airline executives and they would tell me, yes, our flights to San Jose are doing great. I'll be like, no, you mean San Juan, I'm the tourism minister of Puerto Rico, not Costa Rica. And that was the reality of us before the hurricane, after the hurricane, a few paper towels <laugh> thrown across a room and the fact that Puerto Rico was in the headlines, all of a sudden everyone knew where Puerto Rico was. Everyone knew that Puerto Rico was around big, big ocean. Everyone knew that we needed help and it was just a matter of them then grabbing that and turning it into an opportunity and leveraging that empathy that the whole world had towards us because of the situation that we had been to and deliver a call to action that wasn't about send us aid.
Carla: It was about if you really wanna help, you should come and you should get to know our people and you should get to help us rebuild. And we used volunteer tourism in the initial stages and, and we used and we strengthened all of our corporate partnerships because all the cruise lines, all the airlines, all the hospitality brands wanted to help. So we engaged our tourism partners in being able to leverage this. And our relationships were strengthened as a result of the hurricanes, our tourism industry was strengthened as a result of it. Today, fast forward and I was, hurricanes were 2017. 2019 was a record breaking year in terms of, um, arrivals to the island just two years after those hurricanes. And with earthquakes, political unrest and everything in between because the way that we saw crisis at each point in time was not in, here we go again, we need to manage another situation. It was, what do I need to do to leverage this as, as an opportunity for growth? And we could talk about so many examples in each of those of, of how that mindset and that overall intent on strategy got implemented throughout all these situations.
Christine: Yeah. Oh, um, I don't even really have a response, but there's so many amazing things and like you said, we could really dive deep into each one of those. But I feel like, um, yeah, just so many good ways of like adjusting our perspectives and one, just, um, to honor the, the way that you moved through those situations, like every time I hear that story, I don't, I'm equally mesmerized and impressed and surprised that you're still standing. Cuz I think if it were me <laugh>, I would not be and, and, and positive and optimistic about it. But I, I mean I, there's so much brilliance in, in the way that, that you were able to lead a team through those situations and to be able to, to create what you created out of those moments. So, um, I just wanted to acknowledge that before moving on, but I would perhaps we'll have to have another session where we can dive deeper just into this. Cuz I think it's really important and I think this mindset shift and this way to, to really create movement and growth in these situations is really important because like I said, I don't think this is something that we're going to be stepping away from in the future. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, unfortunately.
Carla: Yeah. Listener, can I, oh, sorry to interrupt, but just as a, as an end note to this, because it is so important. Um, you have a lot of women in leadership positions listening to, to your podcast, and I think the bottom line with this is that you have to have the ability to lead through crisis confidently. You will make mistakes and you will fail because that's the nature of it. But you do need to have the ability to confidently lead through crisis because you are the one that's responsible for transmitting that sense of confidence to everyone else. And you won't have all the answers. You absolutely will not. And again, you will fail in the process and you will make mistakes, but you need to be able to have the ability to come up with solutions creatively, uniquely, um, to be able to, to leverage these situations. So I think to your listeners, I think confidence is key as you are having to deal with these situations. And that's really what's gonna set you apart from everyone else that's managing the same crisis. It's, it's about how you approach it and it's the mindset that you have, just as you mentioned.
Christine: Yeah. Uh, well the, the last thing I would love to talk to you a little bit about is, you know, you've shared so much of your journey and you know, where you landed in Puerto Rico, which, um, in a previous conversation, you know, really was a goal that you had for yourself much later in your career, but you ended up landing there a lot ahead of this trajectory, even though we both know that we had no, no plan. But, you know, the plan, the unplanned plan <laugh>, was to get there at some point later in your career and then retire, right? Like this would be your, um, you know, your high pinnacle, the peak of your career, and you, you already landed there. What do you do when you kind of reach that position and you're looking for the next thing, which is where you are now.
Christine: So you're kind, you're in this moment. And also, you know, we've talked a lot about, um, kind of these negative things or these hard things being a catalyst for our, our action. So now you've also kind of like done this thing that you really set out to do so you don't have that same catalyst. What does that transition look like for you? Because I think transitions are difficult always, and I don't know if women internalize transitions different, but part of my business is founded on supporting women who are going through all different transitions in their life and using travel as a way to support and grow and kind of nurture themselves through that period of time. Um, but I would love to just kind of talk a little bit about this period for you.
Carla: Yeah, and I think, I think this is important because often we talk about success and, and, and we tend to hear stories about how people we're able to do what they do. Um, but we need to have, we need to listen to these stories sometimes to identify ourselves with, so I'm happy to share my story just because I know there may be people that feel alone in that process. Um, all story, all stories are different. So to your point, I did see myself at the end of my career being able to come back to Puerto Rico and doing and using everything that I had learned to benefit and to have an impact in the place that I call home. Because again, I'm purpose and impact driven and in some linearal trajectory in my mind, I had to learn everything I could about managing tourism all around the world in order to be able to come back home and do it, um, for the bene like that would be the greatest impact that I could have.
Carla: So I saw it towards the end of my career. Um, I'm, I'm 37 right now, and, and I did this for, for the last few years. So in my early thirties, I was, I was a part of of, of being able to do this. So that being said, it forces you to, to think about what do you do when you reach what you thought was your peak in a time that is not when you thought you were going to get there. And, and that's, I I will confess it has been a hard process to digest, but it's also an exhilarating one.
Carla: Some of the things that I found are, number one, because I am so purpose driven and I see myself working to create an impact in, in whatever it is that I do, I sort of felt that the hours of the day weren't enough for me to have a positive impact. So I, this phase of my career until what I, what I'm mentioning, right, like being in that role, being in that leading role, the way that I got there was Carla seventh. And the work that I did was first always, always, and, and I've always been known as a workaholic and I've always been known as, as someone that is completely and compassionately committed to my work. And that hasn't changed. But the reality is that while I am resilient and I am resilient, but I was not being sustainable, I was not being sustainable to myself.
Carla: So if I wanted to keep, if I wanted to keep growing at that pace of, of dedicating myself entirely to my work, it wasn't gonna be sustainable for me to continue creating an impact as I wanna create it in the future. So the first thing I had to do is assess myself personally and say, what kind of leader do I wanna be? Where do I wanna go? And, and we'll get to that in a minute, but how am I going to do it? And the how has become a very important part of these last two years for me, which have been, well, what is the work-life balance that I aspire to? How am I going to make better decisions when I'm rested <laugh>? How is it that I, how do I need to grow personally in order to be able to have better teams around me?
Carla: How do I, how, how am I going to be a better leader for the teams that I manage? And all those were like big questions I've sort of had to wrangle, um, during these past two years because I know that in order to be an effective leader in the future, it needs to be sustainable. And in order for me to do that, I need to lead in a different way, grabbing all of the good things I've learned and rolling them over, but also being very honest about those areas that I could be doing better at for myself in order to better serve and in order to better have an impact. So that's, that's the one of the key takeaways in this transition. Um, the second is, it's not as easy for us women to think about a new north. I think that I, I may be a little, um, I don't know how this is gonna come across, but I, I feel that the way that men go about envisioning their career, they think of the peak and they are constantly working towards that peak, that C-suite, that c e o role.
Carla: One day I'm going to get there and maybe we don't think necessarily, and some people do, but we maybe cut ourselves short in what we envision for ourselves moving forward. We have the ability and the capabilities to do all of that, but maybe we tell ourselves, well, I think that's what's gonna be better for me, is to get here not to that ceiling. And I thought that this role that I had was my ceiling. That's the ceiling that I had felt for myself. And it has been hard for me to think, well, what am I going to do next that I can top myself off professionally? And when I think of topping myself up professionally, remember I'm also thinking about it through my impact lens. How can I have a bigger impact? How can I fulfill my purpose in a bigger way? And, and it was hard for me to envision, uh, envision, envision a bigger way.
Carla: But, um, thanks to the support of these wonderful organizations that you and I, um, belong to where I'm able to engage with other women leaders in our travel industry where I'm able to read about who's doing what and where are people growing and where are people going and what's mobility like professionally, I was then able to identify that I'm able to grab this perspective on how I see sustainability and where I see that sustainability needs to be better implemented, which is in the corporate world, right? It's in that private sector, it's in where that mass tourism is engaging with the world and being able to support the day-to-day decision making in those organizations, um, in a, in a way that is more responsible because that's how I'll have a larger impact. So I thought the larger impact I would have would be to play puppets in a destination and manage a destination.
Carla: And then I realized, wait, there's something above that. Because it's not just about the nonprofit organizations around the world and the associations, it's about the corporate landscape needs people that are purpose and impact driven as well. Um, so it's taken me a while to get to that new north, but I'm extremely excited about just continuing to build on this career that I feel immensely proud of, um, because I've been able to work with so many people that have helped me to get here and I've been able to learn from so many people. And I know that taking my career somewhere else is only gonna me mean that I'm gonna be able to work with more wonderful teams and more wonderful people and learn from amazing mentors. And I'm really looking forward to to that. So that's sort of where my mind's at and, and my encouragement to your listeners would be, if you think you're getting comfortable, shake yourself off. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's sort of what I did when I realized that I was getting very comfortable. I made a, a very, um, uncommon decision, which was to take a step back and say, wait, I still have half of my life and, and I need to figure out what something larger I can aspire to be.
Christine: Yeah. Oh, there's so many beautiful takeaways from that as well. And the thing that I was envisioning as you were talking about kind of, you know, having this goal and thinking you were there and you arrived is when you're hiking. Uh, a few years ago I hiked a fourteener with a group of people and you know, you, you reach a false summit. So you know, you, you think you're there and you, you're like starting to celebrate and you're starting to like feel the relief of reaching this place. And then you get there and then as soon as you reach there, you like see like, oh no, there's still so much further to go. But also the exciting part about that is there's so much further to go. So like for me to think like, what if this was your like halfway point, right? And in terms of impact to, to realize that like this thing, and like you said, like this is, this is the ceiling you set for yourself, but actually there's so much more available.
Christine: And I do think that is also a, a, a huge mindset shift is, um, not like blocking ourselves. Like I find that I am, you know, the number one person in the way of my success. It's not all these other people and limitations and barriers, it's just what I've told myself I'm capable of doing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think, you know, a lot of people would relate to that. And the, and then the other thing I wanted to circle back to, which is kind of one that we started with the context of sustainability in our industry, but then thinking about sustainability within ourselves, because think as impact driven passionate leaders and entrepreneurs and business owners, we have this drive, like I said, coming from within. And so it's not as easy to turn it off because it's just sitting there like bubbling inside of you, pushing you forward and willing you forward.
Christine: And so you're not taking care of yourself often because you are trying to serve for the greater good and you, and you feel like you have to keep going and at some point you hit that wall. And I also, you know, probably about the same time we met, I was feeling the same thing. I, I think that's why I so deeply connected with you is I could just like feel that that drain and that like n like the fight between what you wanna do and how tired you are and like wondering where you're gonna get enough strength to do this thing that won't let go of you because you, you're gonna do it whether you're worn out or whether you are nourished and right. So I think people kind of having that dialogue within themselves and really discovering and, and then understanding like you will create more of a positive impact if you are taking care of yourself and Right. Um, you know, not, not new, new pieces of knowledge, but, but I think really important to revisit because I think that's a hard habit to get away from. And I'd be curious, you know, as you kind of set off on this next leg of your climb, like, you know, how, how you're able to kind of keep checking back in with that and not let the enthusiasm, the excitement and the rush, like let you jump back into that place. You know, I, I think it's so hard to break that habit. Absolutely.
Carla: And I that as a, as a final thought on that, don't wait for you to be burnt out to realize you need to make that change. Um, don't wait for you to start losing effectiveness. Effective. Yeah. For, for you to be less effective for you to make that change. For me, I knew that I was resilient and I was being very effective <laugh>. Um, but the way I was being resilient and the way that I was being effective was not sustainable. So fortunately I followed my instincts, which is another thing that I would highly recommend. Find a way to be in contact, in contact with your instincts every step of the way. And I had a very, very strong instinct that told me, you will get burnt out and it will not be pretty and it will be harder. So now that you're still effective, that you are still being productive, that you still have clarity of thought, now is when you need to make that change. Because the way that you are doing this is not gonna be sustainable forever. So you need to find a way to be sustainable yourself, sort of follow that instinct and, and don't wait for it to be too late. And I'm happy to be consulting right now and to be able to consult as I design that next phase of my career.
Christine: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, thank you. Well, the last thing, um, I have Carla, is just a few rapid fire questions to wrap up our call. And, and yeah, I, this has been such a beautiful conversation. I'm so, so, so grateful for the, the kind of like shared path that brought us together to this point, cuz it, it's so great to be connected with you. Um, the, the first question is, what are you reading right now?
Carla: Ooh, I just finished reading the book of Joy, um, which is the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu's book. Highly recommend it. It's about compassion and, and how you lead with compassion essentially. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And currently I just started reading a book about, oh here we go. Attention span <laugh> by glory of Mark. Uh, a groundbreaking way to restore balance, happiness, and productivity. Cuz sometimes you do need, as, as you're doing all this, you need do, need to focus. So I, I needed some help in, in focusing an attention span. So that's what I'm doing. Right.
Christine: Perfect. Uh, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Carla: Oh my god, so many things. Um, I always have coffee Puerto Rican coffee because wherever I go I will give someone a a little bit of coffee from Puerto Rico. If you want a taste of where I'm from.
Christine: Oh, that's such a great idea. Um, to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where is, uh, someplace that you would still love to sojourn?
Carla: Wow. Uh, Melbourne, Australia where I was able to live for a little bit is so close to my heart. And every time I'm there that I get to travel, which has not been often, it's probably been twice. Um, I feel like I'm just back to being a resident in the city and I get to do that when I'm traveling. It's such a warm and nice feeling of you belonging, but you don't really belong. <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Christine: Yeah. Uh, what is something you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been?
Carla: These are amazing questions. Um, coffee. I mean, I'm not that, I'm not a coffee addict, I just enjoy life's simple pleasures. And for me, everywhere I go, I like taste a cup of coffee, of the local coffee and I'm able to like, identify the subtleties of how that place is different from the next. So it's more about the ritual and getting to know place through, like how it taste. And that's why I also bring coffee in my suitcase because I do have that tendency and I could tell you how coffee tastes in different parts of the world. So
Christine: <laugh>. Yeah. I, I love it. I think it's such a great way of, uh, it is, it is really connecting to a destination. Cuz there's such a story about coffee wherever you go as well. Exactly.
Carla: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Christine: Who was the person or persons that to or encourage you to set out and explore the world?
Carla: To explore the world? I will say my, my, in Spanish we say [inaudible] um, my own sort of charge or desire to discover something else. So it wasn't really that I saw other people traveling, it was more that I felt this desire to get to know more and I sort of had this instinctual instinctual urge to get to know more and to get, to get, to get to know the world in a different way. I think international development was a beautiful way to do that as well. So, so I definitely say my instinct along those lines. And then in sustainable travel, I became a nerd reading Don Hawkins word work before going into dws master in tourism administration program. And we sort of consider him like the grandfather of sustainable tourism. He is, he's this beautiful person and I was extremely inspired by what he did and how he wanted to shape, um, people like you and me to be able to do that in a, in a way that we could share and, and have a broader back.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. And I love that word cuz I also feel this is our other soul sister connection, but I feel like that's for me too. Like they're just, something just said go out there. I'm like <laugh>. Okay. I, I will <laugh>. Um, if you could take, uh, an adventure or travel with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?
Carla: Alive or past? I've been reading, um, I've been reading Obama's, um, books as well lately and, and Michelle's and I think like how they're seeing travel is really interesting and they've, Obama especially has been a very big champion for our sector and his administration had wonderful people that are currently doing great stuff. Um, Kelly, Craig head and, and million other people that are out there doing positive things in tourism. And he sees for his daughters travel as the best university. So you saw his, his first, his firstborn took a year off break to travel to get to know the world because that's ultimately education. So I think it would be cool to travel with him or with someone like him that sees traveling in the same way, right? It's about education, it's about getting to know the world and, and it's also a very good use of your time if you employee correctly.
Christine: Yeah. So I think you know this already, but I'm getting ready to leave to travel with my three daughters for a year and it's very much that like I'm, I, I know this will be the place they grow and learn the most and right. We've talked about like, what are you gonna do for their schooling while they're traveling? You know, everybody asks that. I'm like,
Carla: That will be the school, right?
Christine: I'm like, what more could they possibly learn? Like obviously things we will probably keep up on, but to me I feel like that's the most important thing. Um, the last question is, uh, solar travel is a space for honoring women in the travel industry. Is there someone who you would love to recognize in this space?
Carla: Oh my goodness. So many. So many. I think, um, I'm gonna list, I'm, I'm gonna do a quick list and I don't wanna forget people, but I think there's definitely these people that other women leaders need to be following their footsteps. So if you wanna, if you wanna be able to aspire for more, there's other women that are, that are breaking ground for us and are shattering those ceilings. Um, in the, in the traditional industry, you have Stephanie Leonards that just left Marriott. She was, she led Marriott, um, af after so many years. Um, Lisa Luta, um, Perlo Rudolph is leading celebrity, just announced two days ago that she's retiring and she's the c e o, uh, of celebrity. So her, someone to follow. Um, Christine Duffy at Carnival is doing great thing. Um, Joanna Garrity at JetBlue, uh, doing one wonderful things. Uh, Kelly Craighead is currently leading, um, clea and, and again, she came from, from also being a public servant to, to being in that position to be able to work at the executive level. And I hate that I am gonna miss the opportunity to shout out so many other women, but I would just encourage your listeners to know that there are already women that are shattering those glass ceilings for us and you should definitely get to know them because they inspire me. Um, and I'm sure that they will inspire so many others. So I may, maybe I'll put a comment when you post it and I'll share my top list of women that you should be following and travel. Yes. Uh, but those were some quick names.
Christine: Absolutely. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for your time. This has been such an incredible conversation. I'm so grateful to share it in this space and I can't wait to see like the next, uh, pinnacle on the next mountain that you arrive at, and to talk to you about that part of your journey as well.
Carla: Thank you so much for the opportunity. This has been super fun.
Christine: Thank you.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.