Episode 242 - Casey Hanisko, Casey Hanisko - Coaching + Consulting
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Casey Hanisko.
Casey Hanisko is a distinguished leader in the adventure travel industry, celebrated for her extensive contributions and thought leadership. With over 25 years of experience, she has held pivotal roles that have shaped the landscape of adventure tourism and business coaching for tourism leaders.
As the former President of the Adventure Travel Trade Association (ATTA), Casey was instrumental in expanding the organization's global influence, promoting sustainable practices, and fostering a vibrant community of adventure travel professionals. In recognition of her impact, Casey was named among the ""50 Most Important Women in Travel,"" ranking at #26. She has been featured in prominent media outlets, including Fast Company, Outside Online, and the SKIFT Podcast, where she shares her insights on adventure travel trends and leadership.
Transitioning to coaching and consulting, Casey leverages her extensive industry knowledge to guide businesses and leaders through transformative changes. Her consultancy focuses on helping travel companies navigate complex challenges, enhance strategic planning, and implement innovative solutions. She is a certified coach through the International Coaching Federation (ICF) and the Coach Training Alliance and is trained in assessments such as EQ-i 2.0® emotional intelligence and Everything DiSC™ personality assessments. She offers a Leading People ProgramTM twice a year for people leaders looking to develop their management and leadership skills.
Casey is also a recognized thought leader, frequently sharing her perspectives through speaking engagements at major industry conferences, contributing articles to leading trade publications, and through her ""Leading Naturally"" LinkedIn newsletter. Her thought-provoking insights on adventure travel, business strategy, and leadership have established her as a respected voice in the field.
Beyond her professional endeavors, Casey is committed to championing women's leadership. She has organized women's leadership forums, mentored emerging leaders, and currently serves as the Senior Facilitator for Women Travel Leaders Elite Group Coaching Masterminds.
Through her multifaceted career, Casey Hanisko continues to inspire and lead, leaving a lasting impact on the adventure travel industry and beyond.
Self-Reflection and Discovery in Leadership and Executive Coaching in Travel and Tourism
Casey shares the natural flow of coaching, beginning with a leader’s strengths and leaning into utilizing those strengths to meet their goals, finding ways to help them get where they’re going and identify any roadblocks in the way.
Identifying rockstar leader Vincie Ho who launched RISE Travel Institute in xx year, Casey notes that leaders like Vincie who are aware of their areas for growth is a huge strength in itself. “This relates to values really, because then values can help you really lead and guide your business in a way that stays true to you.”
When leaders align their business values and begin to differentiate those from their personal values, the path forward becomes much more clear. Christine shares how powerful it is when we bring our whole selves into leadership roles and, for entrepreneurs, every aspect of our businesses. “I think we’re now seeing what you were saying is, our strengths are going to come when we bring all of our stuff with us, even if that’s baggage, even if that is places where we don’t feel sure about ourselves.”
Casey shares from her perspective that the leaders who are successfully navigating challenging moments and shifting tides are those who are self-aware and willing to find the overlap between their personal values and the defined values of their companies. “There needs to be some serious overlap on those values, or this might not be a good business for you, or a good place for you… That’s where I love to help people understand how their values can support them.”
Signs Your Values Are Being Challenged
Casey shares a candid story of how she discovered that her value of integrity was challenged in one of her roles, ultimately leading to a new perspective and even a career shift. Casey goes through her own process and structure for helping clients recognize and realize values they were not aware of beforehand.
Christine reflects on her own values work with Casey, where she began to see that some of the ideals she was calling her values didn’t cover the entirety of what was truly important to her.
“It’s like your inner critic holding you back from letting that be a value.”
Identifying the Difference between Coaching and Consulting
For coaching, the difference is that in coaching, you’re really drawing out things within the coaching client that they need more perspective on, or be thinking differently, or they know the answer to but they don’t know how to tap into it. You’re almost a guide to what they need.
Consulting is bringing my expertise, suggesting different ways you could do this.” Casey also lists formats such as strategic planning and determining next steps as suitable more for a consulting role.
Because Casey’s values drive her to work with purpose-driven leaders, those who are passionate about what they’re doing, thoughtful, and conscious of their role on this Earth.
Creating Space for Self as a Leader
“If you don’t intentionally say, this is the time for me to do something in particular…it’s very hard to do that because of the clutter or the noise that comes in your life,” Casey reflects, sharing how her self-guided writing retreats have been an integral part of her leadership practice.
Spending time – intentional time – for ourselves is essential in renewing and refreshing our energy and more. When we dedicate time, space, and energy toward our values, distractions fall away and we are more able to move forward.
“I firmly believe in having values that you’re striving towards – that you may not be fully living right now. What might it look like if you were living that more fully? That could be a part for you in a process of identifying some really long-term goals and purpose in your life that could change what you do on a daily basis.”
Soul of Travel Episode 242 At a Glance
In This Episode, Christine and Casey discuss:
Casey’s path through tourism to coaching and consulting
Supporting leaders in understanding their values and bringing these values into their work
Elevating purpose-driven leaders and women-owned businesses
Coaching resources and book recommendations for travel industry leaders
Personal retreats as a way to create time for self-reflection
Leading People, Casey’s upcoming 9-week transformative leadership program beginning September 30
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Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Visit caseyhanisko.com to learn more about Casey’s work in executive coaching and mentoring.
Connect with Casey on LinkedIn and subscribe to her newsletter, Leading Naturally.
Reserve your space in Casey’s Fall cohort of the Leading People Program, beginning September 30th.
Learn more about the Women Travel Leaders Elite membership level and reserve your space in Casey’s leadership cohort here.
Explore RISE Travel Institute’s Flagship Program, based in sustainability and anti-oppression in travel. Learn more about RISE Travel Institute’s Carbon Literacy and Climate Justice Workshop for Travel and Tourism Professionals, launching Monday, November 10.
Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #13: Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
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We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Soul of Travel Episode 242 Transcript
Key Words: women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I am your host, Christine, and today I am very excited to have a return guest, um, coming back to the podcast to share a little bit more of her wisdom. Um, I am joined by Casey Anco, and we are going to have a conversation around.
Um, coaching and consultation and personal growth and kind of how those all intersect. As well as looking at kind of some of our perspectives on where we see the industry headed, maybe where we hope the industry is headed. Um, and then, yeah. Wherever the path leads us. I was wishing that it was gonna lead us to deep belly laughs because this is one of the things that over the past year or so, I have really relished that Casey and I have connected and had spaces for that to happen, and I didn't realize.
That it happened every time we were together in person until the last time we were together. Which is funny because I, in my mind, see us both as kind of serious and like reserved, but yet somehow together, not so much. Or maybe it's the people around us when we're together. I don't know. Um, but anyway, that's a side note and it could happen.
Who knows? I could use it today. Um, but welcome to the podcast, Casey.
Casey: Thank you, Christine. I, I think what we should learn from that is that we're, we're both really funny and that we didn't know it. And so that's what happens when, when we are actually in person with other people. So that's, that's what I'm gonna take away from our, our really, really hilarious moments that have happened.
Christine: yeah. I, I, I agree. We'll shift the narrative. Rewrite the narrative. They'll be like, oh yeah, that Casey and Christine, they are hilarious.
Casey: I am known from my very loud laugh. Often my friends will be like, I heard you from across the room. We know Casey's here.
Christine: Yeah. Well that's good.
Casey: Yeah.
Christine: Uh, well, as we begin our conversation, I'll just remind our listeners that we did chat, um, a while back. I'll, I will put a link to that episode in the show notes. So if you wanna go back and. Kind of catch more of Casey's origin story and some of her beginning working in the industry, um, that's where that conversation will live.
But I do wanna give you a moment to introduce yourself for people who might be new to you, and tell us a little bit about who you are and the work you do.
Casey: Oh, great. Um, well, just briefly, my history in the industry. I started off at Zam Expeditions, um, and worked at, they were outbound tour operator and they did expedition cruises and land tours. For, and I worked there about 14 years doing marketing and communications, and then I transitioned to the Adventure Travel Trade Association.
I was a really active member and, um, had the opportunity to go, um, work in marketing and communications for them. I was the VP before transitioning to president and I was president of that association for about five years and great organization. And we grew so much, um, really just expanded what we were doing, expanded the team globally, and I was really involved with strategy and people leadership and.
I really knew that that's what I wanted to do next, which is where I am now. So now I have my own coaching and consulting business. I do a variety of things and, you know, since we last talked, um, it's just been a really sort of exciting, um, sort of natural growth and, um, and change into like what I do now, which is I coach one-on-one, I do group coaching, I do consulting, uh, I work, um.
With nonprofits. Um, I've done that through my consulting and also as a board volunteer. And, um, yeah, it's just been a wonderful process. And so I work, um, with women primarily, but also with purpose-driven leaders, um, and in the travel industry, but also, uh, I've worked with nonprofits and other companies like within sort of the outdoor space.
Christine: Thank you so much and as I'm remembering back, I feel like when we talked last, you actually were just very much in that transition phase and hadn't had, not long ago, left your position with a TT A and had just started your consulting business. So that's kind of great to go back and, and look at where you were in that moment.
Casey: Yeah, for sure. I remember you wanting to interview me and I was like, can we wait another month or two? Because mm. I'm not sure where I, where I'm at. I had a few things that were possibly happening and I wanted to make sure that, uh, I knew the direction I was going and so for sure, I don't remember when it was, but yeah, I had recently started and, um, you'd have some great partnerships, um, that developed, um, early on, and so I've.
Yeah, the, my coaching business has just really grown since then.
Christine: Yeah, it's been fun for me. I have hit a few people at those times in their careers. I don't know if it's just like divine timing or, or what, but I've gotten to hear. Like I've gotten to not spill the beans or try not to spill the beans with a few guests because they're in these major transitions and not sure exactly how things are landing.
Um, for me that's really fun as well. 'cause, uh, one of my, I guess, favorite things to be is a safe space for kind of that exploration and those conversations that you're sometimes having during those transitions. And, um, so I'm, I'm grateful when that. When that happens, and then to kind of watch it unfold also feels very special.
So, um, yeah, that's, that's been really, uh, great to see here. Um, the other thing that's been really fun, we have worked together at Rise Travel Institute over the last. Year. I think it's been just about a year right now, um, where we both joined, um, as volunteer board members and now you're the head of the board, which has been really fun.
But for me, this has been such a growth experience. Like I love watching you lead. Um, which is why I am really excited for this conversation. It's taught me so much just to see how you. Hold space, how you navigate things, how you think about things. I'm like, I now will be like, let me put my Casey hat on in this situation and see how I think she would respond, or how she might delegate, or how she might start to strategize, which is a way of thinking.
I don't have instinctively, I, I have this very like. Guns blazing, heart forward, let's make big things happen. And then like I see you be like, I see those things like ready to explode. Let's think about the direction they're going. Let's think about like plan A, B, and C, and how we can connect those dots.
And it has been so valuable for me. So I really want to talk about kind of this process for you. When you start working with people and understanding their leadership styles and then maybe how they are aligned with yours, or completely opposite of yours, because I'm sure you run into all types of people.
Um, what has that been like for you, just kind of shepherding people into this leadership coaching and executive coaching?
Casey: That's such an interesting question. I haven't really reflected on that. 'cause I think it kind of happens naturally, right? Where, um, as a coach and consultant you're sort of discovering. Where people are at and sort of what their strengths are and what they can lean into more and utilize to meet their goals, their value, their vision, and then I can help sort of support that other side or to, to, or to help them see how they need help in other ways in order to get to where they're going.
And it. That's one of the helpful things about being a coach is that you can help give people that perspective. And so using Rise as an example, uh, you know, there are, there are other board members who have strengths in different areas. Um, Vincent Ho the, um, executive director is. Such an amazing, like, passionate, knowledgeable woman who also is very well aware of the things she's not as strong in.
And that is a really big strength, actually, that self-awareness. And so that's something that I really like to help support my clients see. And initially as one really like. What are their strengths? What, what might be opportunities for areas where they need help? And also, um, this, it relates to values really, because then values can help you really lead and, um, guide your business in a way that is, stays true to you.
And so that's something that I also bring, always bring forward in my. Conversations because often entrepreneurs, um, will be thinking about the values of their, um, business versus necessarily their own, their own values. And as you really dive into like, who am I as a leader or who, where am I in my life?
You also need to tap back into that. And that all relates to sort of understanding your path forward. And how you can sort of move things. And so I hope I help by supporting people with that.
Christine: Yeah. Um, I love that. The idea of examining your personal values and your professional values and the overlap, because I think, um, I just was talking with someone else about this is that we, for a long time have had like this persona of professionalism and it's almost like this scaffolding of what, like a CEO or a leader or a professional looks like.
And to me, in my mind, that's a very kind of like. Not, sterile isn't the right word, but it's a, it's a very kind of. Um, like it's a role. You're not bringing your whole self into the role. You're like only bringing these efficient pieces, and you are adapting to be that leader and yet to be an effective leader.
I think we're now seeing what you were saying is like our strengths are gonna come when we bring. All of our stuff with us, even if that's baggage, even if that is places where we don't feel sure about ourselves. And you know, as you were saying, recognizing our weaknesses and being forward with them instead of trying to hide them and hoping you've got the team that picks up the slack behind you, like intentionally creating that team.
Um. Do you think that people, when you're working with them, especially as executives, perhaps like are surprised by the level of personal awareness and reflection that is a part of the process? Or do you think we're evolving and people who are seeking coaching understand this personal and professional interconnectedness thickness.
Casey: I think that they do understand it, uh, and I do think that leaders are becoming more and more self-aware over time, for sure. And because I see a lot of really young people who are more self-aware, who have done examinations of like, what are their values? Um, and I think a lot of people have, but aren't necessarily revisiting them or thinking about like what, what actions to take or where, where those might lead them.
So they might know them, but they're not, like, they're not living them or using them as guides. That's sort of the difference. And so, uh, I, I think that what happens is that related to executives, they will also maybe have done that work. But I will ask, have you, have you worked on your values before? You know, before we get started, I wanna know if you, if you've done this, I would say, hmm.
A quarter of the time, or 50% of the time people have done some of that work, they'll bring it out. We'll talk about it and discover that they actually have some different values that are now sort of important and true for them, or that they haven't thought about how those might be really critical and important to where they are in their life right now, and that they've, they lean into them more.
It might lead them into choosing different directions or en engaging in something in a different way. they recognize, Hey, this is important for me. One of the things that I'll talk about sometimes when I'm, um, maybe in a workshop or a keynote is to think about we, I'm a hundred percent agree with you about like it's a whole person values.
I don't believe in professional personal values, but I do believe that there are company values and there there are individual values and that, um, there needs for a good work. Career fit. There needs to be some serious overlap on those values or this, it might not be a good business for you or a good place for you.
And it's a, it's a really good self-awareness to have. If you're a business owner, you probably hope that those overlap pretty extensively, right? If this is your business. But if you're somebody who works there, you know, there can be some slight overlap. You may really value, um. Education, but maybe the business that you, you're in, that's not something that's part of it.
But the business is very like family friendly, um, really believes in community and something else. And so with that, that's enough. And if education is really important to you, you can weave that into your life through some other other way. So that's where I love to sort of help, um, people. Understand how their values can support them.
Christine: Yeah, and I, I would think, like you were saying, that would be integral to when you're looking for the right people in your business to have them matching those values and to. Be able to speak very clearly about them because I remember being in jobs early in my career and being someplace and being like, Hmm, I don't like this place.
I'm not sure why. And then landing in another place and being like, like this place, I feel at ease and I feel really eager to support it. And I'm really like excited by the work that's happening. And now if I reflect back, I can be like. Oh, this was really not aligned with my values and this was a place where I was actually understanding my values and how I could be, like the parts of myself could be present in my work.
Like I didn't really realize they could be together because I had had a lot of the early college jobs, you know, where you're, you're working to get paid, right, and you're working to live. But I didn't realize like there could be both in my profession at that moment, and that was. Like one of the first aha moments that this could be something I wanted.
And then like later has been like, that's the first thing I think about instead of something that happens by accident. And I don't know if maybe again, like maybe this is a trend that's shifting. 'cause I know my parents would've said, you do your job to make the money to pay the bills. Right. And,
Casey: Yeah.
Christine: and I, I don't know.
I hope that that's a narrative that's changing.
Casey: Oh, I think it is, right, because we're now at the age that we're the parents that are saying like, you know, what do I want for my, my kids? I want them to be happy in, in their jobs, in their lives. Um, and I think at least, like maybe they'll do something. Maybe my son will become a solar panel technician, right?
And maybe that is something that. He loves because he can be active and like moving around and maybe that's a value of his right. And maybe it supports, um, know, uh, climate action, right? But. Does he really, maybe he's not very excited about like actually installing the panels. Right. But it's a job, so that might be where there's like overlap and it's fine.
Maybe his passion is theater and so maybe he volunteers and does theater stuff on the side, and this is imagining him older. Right. That could be a way where me as a parent, I'd be like, you know? Yeah. Or maybe he becomes a. Somebody who works in theater and possibly makes very little money, but he is really happy.
And so that, I think you just need to sort of follow that. I wanted to tell a story 'cause it kind of brings up about my own values and it, I think it's interesting about, um, sort of process of time. So one of my values is integrity and, um, I think the, at TA is a wonderful organization at the.
However, over my time, there was just moments where I felt like, and, um, my integrity was possibly in question because of, of things that, um, were challenging to follow through on with my team. And it was really, it, it was something that over the years was really hard for me because. I felt like my integrity was being questioned because of my ability as a leader to follow through, um, and take action on things, which is incredibly important for me.
And it was something that just over time just sort of built up as like, Hmm, this is so hard for me. This is so hard for me 'cause this is a value of mine. And, and. You know, eventually it led to different decisions that I made because of wanting to hold true to my values more and more deeply. And because of other values I ha I had, there was this awareness that, um, there may be a better fit for me in my career.
Now, as much as I love this, this organization, right, and, um, you know. Those things happen, right? Where, where you can sort of, you can lead, you can lean into or sort of have more or more awareness of like, when is this value being challenged into too, too far for you, right? Like that can be like family might be a value of yours and you might work for an organization that, um.
Isn't really welcoming about like taking kids to appointments or a flexible schedule and maybe you can like kinda live with it, like eh, it's okay and it's okay, but then eventually maybe it's not okay, like maybe it sort of starts to wear on you and doesn't really work. Those are examples where like you can sort of step back and be like, wait, this is really important to me.
This is a value that actually I hold quite dear. And it can help you make some decisions and I think find some happiness in other places, which is why I often like to take people back to those, those values.
Christine: Yeah. Do you find that some people have an idea of their values or like they think they know their values, but they actually. Don't, or like they couldn't put them on a piece of paper and stick them on the wall, or they don't really know how to find the words. Like how, how difficult is like identifying the values I.
Casey: Uh, I do think people sometimes know what they are and need to revisit them and they discover new ones because sometimes it's like they're too similar. Like you may, um, think your values are like nature, adventure, um, community and peace or something like that, where actually if you do sort of a values discovery process, you might realize like.
Financial stability or, um, I'm trying to think of something that's sort of just very different. Um, communication, you know, might be, um, really important to you. So it's, it, it understanding the different, sort of like having different themes. I, I would say. Is important. And there's like this value exercise that I take people through that can help with that. Um, and there's multiple ways to do it, but that's why I like to kind of under understand Well, what process have you gone through?
Um, I'm working with a client now who. Had done, identified of her values and now she's really going back and looking at them again, sort of understanding what are the, sort of the stories that, um, have come up. Uh, I like to ask sort of when were you living, when in your time were you most living? Um, your values and when were you not?
And so it can really identify like when you weren't, what values were you not living, let's say in college, you're being crazy and not whatever, doing stuff, like what values were you not living at that time? And maybe at the time of your life, you're living the best version of yourself. What were those values that can help uncover things?
And then putting that lens of like, let's make sure there's like different, um, themes. Make sure you're sort of. Not just like in one grouping. Um, so that can help with the process of like, when are they? Um, and they change over time too. They don't stay the same. Um, sometimes they do, but they often change.
Christine: Yeah, ag, again, like I feel like sometimes it would also depend on where a person is with their own comfort of. Um, like this personal excavation process and you know how far they've gotten. Because I know when I started, like you almost read my values, right? I'm like, adventure, connection, nature, wellbeing, and which were great.
Those were all my values, but those were also like the easy ones for me to say. They didn't, I didn't have to like, I didn't have to own any of them in too much of a way. Like I was already doing that. And then. At one point, like the word spirituality came into my realm of being, and I was like, oh, we're just gonna keep putting that one away.
Because it felt complex and nuanced and it felt like triggering and it felt like, uh, could make me vulnerable and I didn't want to. And I will stay, say, still have trouble, like making that a value, even though it is because it feels, um. A a little bit more difficult for me to be like, oh, I'm gonna write that on the paper and put that on the wall where everyone can see it.
Um, do you feel like that might be something for people, like, I don't know, how would you navigate that, I guess, where if someone really, you could sense that there was something that they just weren't allowing themselves to incorporate as one of their values?
Casey: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, often you can sort of un, you can un uncover that in language that they use. Like, oh, well, I, you know. I really, you know, spirituality really resonates with me, but, you know, blah de blah, and it's like your inner critic coming up that is like holding you back from really like letting that be a value.
And also, I firmly believe in having values that you're striving towards, right? That you may not be fully living right now. And for you spirituality. Is likely that value where, you know, what might it look like if you were living that more fully? You know, that could be a part for you in a process of like identifying some like really long-term goals and purpose in your life that really could change sort of what you do on a daily basis.
If you really were to lean into that, which you were, could be an interesting process for you.
Christine: Yeah.
Casey: we talk about in a coaching call.
Christine: Yeah, I was just gonna say, do you guys like that? You just stepped into my coaching call with Casey. Um. Which actually does just remind me of, 'cause we have been working together so that I could kind of understand your process and talk to you about it. Um, the. I guess the, well, how do I wanna say this?
Well, there was two things I took away from one of our conversations. Um, one is something that I already deeply knew and avoid, like the plague. And one of the things that you had said is if you don't tell people how they can work with you, they won't know how to work with you. And if you don't know, if they don't know what you sell, they can't buy it from you.
And I'm like. Oh, those are two super obvious statements and like I will look at my website and be like, oh yeah, it's pretty unclear where you could hit buy or pay or purchase or support. And then, um. The other thing for me, you had asked, which I still haven't done, so here we are admitting as a bad coaching client to write.
Uh, we were talking about, um, being a mindfulness leader, which for those of you listening on the podcast, I'm, you hear me talking about, um, mind travel all the time talking about being a mindful leader, and yet it is something I have a really hard time saying I do or I am. And after we had our coaching call, I had to call a few of my friends and be like, Hey, like I just was triggered because I'm being called to do something I am uncomfortable with and I know you believe this to be true about me, so I need you to just be my cheerleader.
Um, and that process, I guess I'm kind of going back to like how deeply personal this is and how interesting it is. In our business to recognize the human part of ourselves because that's gonna be the part that holds us back, or, you know, just gets in our way. Because as much as we might want to do this X, Y, Z thing, there's this other thing over here that just keeps like calling us back.
And as a leader. We need to embrace it. And I think, like you were saying before, own it and be like, Hey, right now this is my weak link. I'm trying to figure out how to navigate it and here's the people I reach out to to get through that. But I, I just think recognizes recognizing that humanity and. How all of these things work together and then how vital someone like you is in helping us navigate this process.
There isn't really a question that I just asked, but like, this is just something I have seen to be really powerful and important about the work that you're doing.
Casey: Well, this, this reminds me of, uh, one of. I have a coaching question that sometimes comes up as a, a good question to ask that I know is powerful for one client of mine, um, but is, um, in particular that I can think of. But what the question is, what is it costing you to keep doing X, Y, Z or to keep thinking that way and, and.
It makes you think about what is it costing me like is in your answer may be various things. It may be financial, it may be happiness, it may be something, you know, there's all sorts of ways for you, any person to think about the answer to that differently. But it, it sort of can stop you in your tracks a little bit.
Um, and you know, for you, like what is it costing you to not lean more into your, like, your value of spirituality. You don't need to answer that on this interview, but it could be an interesting one to reflect on. Um, so when you hold, when people hold themselves back from something because of fear or, um, constantly questioning they need more certification or more education or all the things that we do, it's also like, what, what's costing you, you know, what, what's the impact of that?
And I, I. It's an interesting one to reflect on, um,
Christine: Yeah.
Casey: to offer that.
Christine: Thank you. Hopefully people are listening and taking notes so they can ask themselves these questions. Um, I wanted to ask you to, just for context, the difference between, um, coaching and consulting, because this is something that you, I heard you say once and I was like. Hmm. I had never stopped to pause and think about the difference.
And again, because I love watching your boundaries and how you navigate them. You're like, this is actually a consulting question and this is a coaching question. And I'm like. Wow. I would've never just paused in the middle of something I was doing and made that, um, clear differentiation. I just would've been like, oh, I'm here.
I'll just do all the things. Um, so then this was me watching you and learning how to prioritize the value of my expertise in different ways. Um, so now you're never gonna wanna be on the Zoom with me 'cause you're like, Christine's just watching me.
Casey: That's funny. What's she doing? That's, oh, it's a delicate balance, you know, to, to navigate the two. Um, because I do work with, um, I do work with people who are interested in working with me in both ways and from an integrity perspective. Uh, for coaching. You know, the differences is that in coaching you're really drawing out, um, things within the coaching client that they need. perspective on, or they need to be like, sort of thinking differently or that is like, they know the answer to, but they just, they just don't know how to like tap into it. And so you're, you're almost just like a guide to what they need. Whereas consulting, it's, it's different. It's bringing my expertise.
It's, you knows, suggesting here's different ways you could do this. Um. It's, it's just different. And I like to like kind of put a, my, like, you know, a hat on or like stay in a coaching call or a call and say like, you know, you're asking, you asked me a question like, let me, this, that's a little bit more on let, let consulting perspective.
Let me. Let me put my hat on. Okay. We're switching into that mode. Now. Sometimes it's a little bit more fluid than that, um, but it can be helpful for me as a coach or consultant to literally sort of stop the conversation and say, you know, even ask sometimes, do you, you know, that that's a little bit more of asking some advice and that's more of a consulting question.
Do you wanna dive into, into it? Then you can say you're in charge of the call, whoever I'm talking with and say, you know what, no, actually I don't, you know, I don't need or want that or, yes, that's exactly what I feel like I need now. Um, is your perspective on, on that thing, um, and that is, is I think it's helpful to have that like delineation or that awareness that something different is happening here.
That you're not going within and seeking the answers that you already know. Because as a coach, like if you're, you're really trying to keep your perspective and your, you know, everything you should, you think should be happening or they might be thinking out of it and. Letting somebody else guide the conversation and letting their needs and perspectives and ideas come, come forth.
Um, sometimes they'll be like, Hey, do you wanna brainstorm? And that's like bouncing ideas back and forth that happens, happens in a coaching conversation. Um, but it's, it's different. And, um, they're definitely, definitely different engagements I'll work with with clients on strategic planning. And we are literally working, working together on putting together a plan.
And that is, uh, much more of a consulting engagement versus coaching somebody through. What might be important for them? Confidence, you know, understanding, you know, what are their goals and vision? What's their purpose? What are my values? What, how can I step into a room and, you know, know, have, have a strong leadership voice.
Um, those are very different from a consulting.
Christine: Yeah. Um, I think it's really helpful too, as you were saying, kind of when you pause and you know, just. Kind of announce that this is a different thing. It's helpful as the person being coached too. 'cause sometimes we don't know exactly what we're looking for and then we can be like, oh yeah, actually I didn't need this, I needed this.
So that is helpful that you told me, because otherwise I didn't know exactly what path I was on or where, where I needed support the most.
Casey: So, yeah.
Christine: Um, you on your website mentioned that you work with purpose driven leaders. Is that from your values as well and is that how you kind of decided that you wanted to focus your business or, or why is that something that's important to you? I.
Casey: Um, well, it kind of ties into working with women leaders is really important for me and, but I also. Wanted, want to support people of any gender and, um, but it's important for me that really all of the leaders that I work with are purpose driven in that it probably helps when I have the coaching conversations that.
Somebody walks in and they are passionate about something that they're doing. They are. 'cause you know, anybody can have a certain different purposes. I guess their purpose could be, I don't know, mining. Right. And that wouldn't necessarily align with, align with me. Right. Um, so, but they would be somebody who is thoughtful.
And conscious of their role on this Earth. And for that, I appreciate them. Whether or not we're values aligned or not in any coaching or client engagement, um, there's always, uh, an initial call and if it's not something of rapport that's going to work, then because let's say somebody comes and their values are just very different from mine, I would have a hard time.
I would have a hard time in that relationship and probably wouldn't take that client. Um, if it was somebody who was like working on a big pivot and maybe it seemed like it would work from a values perspective, you know, I haven't had this come up. I doubt it would, but anyway, so that's why it's really about somebody being, already being somewhat self-aware.
Is that purpose-driven leadership or leader part of it?
Christine: Yeah. Um, I just love that because I feel like that's, I end up gravitating towards people that would identify themselves that way as well. And it just, I don't know if it just happens or if that's who I'm attracting. I hope that's who I'm attracting. But I think, um, I, I just identified with that, so I wanted to ask you about it.
Um, I also, for you wore my shirt that people listening to the podcast can't. See, but it says, um, she will move mountains on it. And it's the, you know, the quote, let her sleep for when she wakes, she will move mountains. Um, I felt like I needed that. Today, in this moment, um, in the COVID era, I was someone who wore like these tees all the time.
I was like, this is how I will survive, is like my inspirational quote, tease. And then I started making some, um, because I wanted to give other people, like, what was I calling it today? Like my emotional support T-shirts. That's what I was thinking when I put it on today.
Casey: in COVID, I took all of like my black clothes and moved them off to the side, and I was wearing color like, because I was like, I need color, I need happiness. I need like that in my life. So that was my clothing therapy during COVID.
Christine: Yeah, same. Same and similar. So I, uh, it just made me think of you when I selected that. I was like, I feel like this is a value or a statement that she would resonate with. Um, well, we're gonna shift gears. I, you wrote a blog, this. Summer, I believe, um, rethinking tourism a new lens on travel impact and connection.
Um, and it was kind of a, this list of books which, and then the ideas contained within them and how they would lead readers through this experience. Um. I loved it because it was like my favorite book list. I was like, oh, this is so good. And that, and then immediately I'm like, I need another new book club because I wanna talk about all of these books with people.
Um, but I loved the idea of kind of using these books and these stories from all of these brilliant writers about how to understand how the industry has worked, how it is working, and then kind of determine. How we might change it and how we can work towards this way of having the impact that we'd like to create in our businesses.
So I wanted to talk about it. Um, I will share the blog for listeners in the show notes so you can look at this list. Um, but a few of them that are like my very favorites. I'm listening again right now to the new tourist. Um, and I'm just like one chapter in again and I'm just like. It's gonna be okay because it's just like triggering all these things in me about like.
How I think about travel, and it's very funny to like read something and then go back and read it, which I also did with Beyond Guilt Trips, um, by Dr. Anu Tarana. I, the first time I read that book, I read just the preface and I started bawling and then I got up and emailed her. I had never, I didn't know her yet, um, which I'm grateful to say that I do now, but, um, I was like, I have been waiting to read this book.
As a traveler my whole life and in my career for as long as I can think of, because these were things I felt and experienced in travel but had no language for. And so that book I thought was really great. Um, the Art of Gathering, gathering by Priya Parker, which I loved because I often think of travel as these gathering experiences and so.
I loved that you threw that in there. And then braiding sweetgrass, um, by Robin Wall Kimer is also like one of my very favorite books. Um, so I think I would love to talk to you about what this process was like for you and then also how you kind of see or hope you see travel shifting.
Casey: Yeah, well one of the reasons I put the list together is that some of my coaching clients are people who are new to travel. Um, so they have, they're leaving their industry and want to start travel businesses, and so I sometimes will recommend books to them, but I was like, I really need like a really good list because here I have an opportunity to really.
Help people enter the space in a very thoughtful and purposeful way where they understand sort of the shift of the industry and they understand some of the nuances that having worked in travel almost 30 years now, I know have been, you know, like Elizabeth Becker's over tourism book and you know, those are just things.
We've been talking about for years. Like, this is not new, this is at all. Um, so how can we take some of these newer books that are really just trying to get a new awareness out there and get it, um, front and center and just have a, a nice, like a list that can be referenced. And so that was my impetus for creating the list.
Um, but the. I think I, I don't know if I mentioned in that, um, article now, um, about doing the book club with, um, some of the women at the A TTA. Um, but it was, so it was just so lovely to have those discussions about the book about, um, beyond guilt trips because it really helped you dive into. What were other, uh, people's experiences when they travel?
How, how did some of these things come up for them? How were they processing? Um, a lot of what she was saying in the book, um, and. It was just, it was such a lovely experience and like, so Rise. I didn't do the last month's book club, but the next one is, it's for the new tourist, right? That's happening in October.
It would be great to put that in the show notes, right? 'cause anybody can join that. Um, and I just think it's a, a really, a really. A good place for, for dialogue, and I'm sure that there's like, there's probably books I'm missing. Um, and there are there books that came up for you when you looked at that list?
Christine: Um, you, you would be overwhelmed by my bookshelf. Um, there's definitely, but those I think are really some of my favorites and. What I loved the most is the books, the, like I said, the Art of Gathering and Braiding Sweetgrass because they're not inherently tourism books. And yet I think those are the stepping stones to what maybe we want tourism to be and certainly what we want it to be considering.
So that's why I loved seeing those because um, for anyone who hasn't read The Art of Gathering. It's so good and I recommend listening to it because I love, like, just even as I hear myself say it, I hear her say it. I loved, I loved her telling the story. Um, but the intentionality behind every gathering, um, was beautiful because, you know, we have these limited time and spaces for connection.
And if we can really think about why we're gathering and if you just lay some of those questions over. Every meeting, like even when we just had our, the soul of travel, um, coffee at the A TTA event, like I use some of that. I'm like, what do I want people. Why do I want these women to come together? What do I hope they find in this one hour that we have during this conference?
Why should they make this a priority? So, like, I was trying to think about that, or even for my, like, daughter's birthday party. It, it's just, it's such a powerful reminder that there's a why behind everything, and that's what I really loved about it.
Casey: Yeah. I so agree. I so agree. The book was, you can use that in so many different places in your life. Just last night I went to a birthday party for a friend. There was 12 people at the table. It was long, awkward experience where, you know, you're not gonna talk to the person at the very end, even though you might want to.
But you know, I walked into it thinking like the purpose of this gathering is to celebrate this woman's birthday. And I was like, Laura, where do you want everyone to sit? It's completely up to you. This is your gathering, right? Like, 'cause she was like, I don't know. I'm like, you just tell people where to sit.
It's your, this is, this is all you. Whatever she wanted. Like I couldn't read her mind. I didn't know what she wanted. It wasn't the space to have her answer the question, what do you wanna get outta this gathering? But just by her guiding people to where. She wanted them to sit, helped her have the type of experience that she wanted to have.
Um, little things like that. And yeah, the, so many good things in that ba in that book. And then braiding, sweetgrass, um, I mean, I should mention that my, I, I so believe in, um, I, and. Nature guiding leadership principles and like nature guiding us. And I have, um, leading Naturally as a newsletter. I write on LinkedIn.
Um, and I like to reflect on what can we learn from nature that can help us as leaders, as, as people in this world, almost not feel so overwhelmed and lonely by. The hard things that happen in our lives because there are plants and rivers and clouds and animals sort of guiding us and showing us that there's reasons why we need to take a break or, you know, shed our leaves.
Weed things, prune things, um, have a community, all of that, it's right there. Like we are animals And braiding Sweet Grass is just a, um, you know, just a lovely, a lovely written book and a lovely book that I think just connects us to the natural world, um, in a way. And it's just very, very, it's very thoughtful.
I love her writing.
Christine: Yeah, she's so beautiful. Like beautifully able to take those examples and then tell us how that we can use them in our lives. You know, she doesn't, she doesn't necessarily make you connect the dots. It's not like a how-to book by any means, but like she's, it's just great with the beautiful story. The, the example in nature and then kind of how she saw that come to play in her own life, I guess usually is more how it is.
But then that allows us to say, oh, here's how I can see a similar. Thing that happened in my life or in this, in my business, in this travel experience, in this relationship. Um, yeah, I, I really, really recommend, and again, hers is a great audible. Um, but I, I have read it and, and think it's, it's a great example.
Um, and I also, when you were talking about the art of gathering and in the context of travel and you were saying, you know, this event. Most events happen, right? Like the goal is to get the invitation out and get the people in the door, and then from there it's kind of like how, however it explodes, evolves, and comes together.
Like the goal was to get the people there and then, and then there's not a lot of control of the thing. After that has been reached when, and you're kind of missing a lot of opportunity. It's kind of like travel. Like if your goal is to get the trip sold out, get the people on the plane, get them to the hotel, get them there, then this chaos kind of just happens, right?
Or these things happen. Not that it's not organized, 'cause most travel is very organized. You can't move people across countries without organization. But the intention isn't always there. And so. I, I, I love just kind of thinking like, what if every time you entered, you know, a space, you kind of had that mental question of like, where would, how would I best serve this place I am now?
Where would they like me to sit? Where you know that this isn't a one-sided exchange, like we're being hosted? Is there some bigger. Part and piece to this experience that I'm a part of. Um, yeah, I, I, I think that that's really going to allow travel to become something even more meaningful to travelers and to destinations and places that are in this exchange with us in the travel experience.
Casey: A hundred percent. It's a full sort of cycle. It's like the before, it's during, it's after. It's all, it's all, it's not just an experience there, it's an experience all around. And as travel professionals, you have the opportunity to help guide that. To create something beautiful.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, before we end our conversation, I wanted to talk about something that I know you set out for, um, with a goal to have four solo writing retreats this year. And one thing I know about you is if you've set a goal. I'm thinking this is gonna happen, which I love. 'cause again, me watching, I was like, this is gonna be so great for Casey.
'cause she set this goal and I wanna see how she does it. Um, but I wanna hear from you why, um, this was important and then also why creating space for self is important in our businesses.
Casey: Mm. Yeah. So, um, I think it's important to create the space because if you don't intentionally say, this is the time for me to do something. In particular, whether it's, you know, for me it was writing, strategic planning, whatever you have. Um, it's very hard to do that because of the clutter or the noise that comes in your life.
And for me, um, I need to set aside physical space. I need to change my environment in order to. Do the thing because of the noise and the clutter. So for me, I went away by myself to this, you know, little expensive, tiny cabin, inexpensive tiny cabin, and did my writing. The next one, I, my mother-in-law's went away, and so I stayed at their house, um, and did some of my writing there.
So it doesn't always have to be this grand, expensive sort of thing. And, and sometimes it can be. Matter of, you know, depending on your availability, maybe you say for three days you're gonna go to a coffee shop over in a week instead of working in the office or out of your house. Um, so I, I firmly believe you can sort of define what retreat means, but it's, to me it's again, that intentionality of like, I'm spending time on this thing for me because it's important and it's gonna help me move towards a, an important.
Goal that I have. So I have work to do to meet my goal for the end of the year, but I'm, I've got some plans in place, so that's exciting. Um, so hopefully I will make that happen.
Christine: Yeah, and I love the idea of, um, just. Shifting or, uh, switching it up a little bit because I accidentally, I just took my computer to the girls' dance studio the, the other day. 'cause I knew I was gonna have to be there for like three hours. And, um, there was kind of, I had to be there for certain things so it didn't make sense to come and go.
And I was like, just bring your computer. Well, I ended up getting so much work done that the next week I was like, I have my computer and I am gonna go get coffee and I'm gonna sit there and I'm going to do my work. And now that is a very kind of. It's not sacred space, but it's like a, it's very dedicated to that action.
Like it hasn't worked well for me. And I can do that. And I will also say, okay, I have to go to the library and work because I am losing focus in my house. I'm getting stuck doing laundry or whatever it is. So I'm like, just go somewhere else where nothing else can get your attention. So, so almost like a mini retreat to just.
Say, here's this moment that I'm dedicating to this thing without the outside distractions. I think it's really, really important.
Casey: A hundred percent
Christine: Um, okay. We have our rapid fire questions that we will try to do rapidly because I know that you have, um, something to move on to. So the first is, what are you reading right now?
Casey: Ooh. Um, I just finished, um, Mel Robbins, uh, let them, and now I'm reading, talk to Me Nice by Minda Harts. So those are two sort of leadershipy type books. And I also, I also just finished Tart, which is this sort of memoir book about a slutty chef is like the name, the name of the author. So I just finished that.
So I'm actually, that's, that's where I'm at right now with my
Christine: Yeah. Uh, what
Casey: Go ahead.
Christine: do you, I'm gonna just skip down to the last question because it's the most important one because I know we have, um, no, not much time. Um, who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize in this space?
Casey: Ooh, well, I have to do a different one from last time. Um, so I'm gonna say Vince Ho because I just, um, the more I get to know her, the, the, I'm just so admire her passion for what she does. And the work that she's trying, she's doing with Rise. And so, uh, I want to make sure everyone knows about her who's listening to this call.
Christine: Yeah, thank you for mentioning her. And I will put in our show notes not only the Rise Book Club on October 28th, but also the um, a few new pro programs that are coming up, including, um, the next cohort of the flagship. So, um, 'cause I also love Vincent and Rise, um, and. You as well. So thank you so much for being here.
I appreciate this conversation with you today.
Casey: Yeah. Thank you Christine.
Christine: Thank you.
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