Episode 228 - Hilary Matson, Yugen Earthside
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine shares a soulful conversation with Hilary Matson of Yugen Earthside as part of the Return to Soul of Travel Series.
Hilary Matson is the founder of Yugen Earthside, a curated platform connecting mindful travelers to responsible package trips. After nearly a decade at Amazon in Seattle, WA, and Paris, France, she earned an MBA at HEC-Paris while specializing in Entrepreneurship and Inclusive & Social Business. She launched Yugen Earthside in 2021 as a bootstrapped Social Purpose Corporation. Running this company is her dream job, allowing her to combine her love of travel with her passionate advocacy for sustainability.
From Corporate Life to Purposeful Entrepreneurship
Christine and Hilary reconnect on the podcast; it’s been years since Hilary’s first visit in 2020 (!). Their discussion begins with Hilary sharing why and how she decided to leave the corporate world and a secure job at Amazon with a clear vision for creating a sustainable travel platform. Unsurprisingly, the cause was travel. She was pursuing an MBA at HEC Paris and the future became clear: she wanted to create a way to connect conscious travelers with locally-owned, responsible tour operators and DMCs worldwide. “About 40% of our partners are women-owned,” Hilary shares.
Yugen Earthside stands out from the crowd through its key initiatives:
Carefully vetted partnerships with one operator per destination/activity type (this is the key!)
Direct booking capabilities for fixed departure trips
Automatic carbon removals for every traveler through Tomorrow's Air
Clear labeling of women-owned businesses
Navigating Growth and Challenges
Hilary's refreshing approach to growth centers around maintaining clear visibility of immediate goals rather than getting lost in long-term planning. She emphasizes the importance of seeing three steps ahead while remaining flexible enough to adapt strategies as needed. This methodology has proven particularly effective, with the company experiencing significant milestone achievements approximately every three months.
Hilary has carefully chosen which initiatives, shifts, and changes to make and they all — or mostly all — have paid off in subsequent growth. She chose to migrate her existing website from WordPress to Prismic, significantly improving the platform’s performance and user experience, allowing tour operators to enter their own tours rather than doing it all herself. Direct booking capabilities for fixed-departure trips have been a game-changer, too.
Hilary has kept an open mind when it comes to marketing, PR, and social media, sharing that she is increasing her efforts to lean into short-form video and looks forward to seeing the results in direct bookings very soon.
Rather than pursuing rapid expansion, Hilary has led Yugen Earthside to sustainable, steady growth that maintains service quality and personal connection with tour operators and travelers. "I don't want to have a unicorn company...I really want the growth to be sustainable."
Pursuing B-Corp Status and the Long Road Ahead
Hilary shares her excitement about pursuing B Corp certification, which has been on her radar for years. She initially started the B Impact Assessment about a year and a half ago but paused due to time constraints. Recently, she has been invited by Lytics, their carbon-neutral certification partner, to join their B Corp cohort. This structured support system provides the motivation and guidance she needs, including timelines, answer reviews, and advice on addressing "low-hanging fruit." She notes that while the average non-B Corp company scores around 50 points and the minimum for certification is 80 points (with a scale going up to 200), this benchmarking helps her understand where Yugen Earthside stands in relation to other companies pursuing certification.
Successful navigation of growth challenges and perseverance requires a balanced approach combining strategic planning, sustainable practices, and continuous adaptation. Hilary is a clear demonstration of the key principles of authenticity, sticking close to your core values, and implementing scalable solutions to support long-term success that makes an impact on how we travel.
“One of my favorite things about the tourism industry, and at least the network in the sustainable space that I have encountered, is that people are so helpful and so kind and so collaborative…Sometimes I share things I’m struggling with and people come out of the woodwork to say, well, here’s how I’ve tried this, or have you thought about doing this? It’s really like walking into a big hug.”
Soul of Travel Episode 228 At a Glance
In this conversation, Christine and Hilary discuss:
· Entrepreneur journeys and the growth of Yugen Earthside
· Creating responsible and sustainable travel platform models
· B-Corp certification and the UN Sustainable Development Goals
· Navigating marketing, visibility, and community in the travel industry
Join Christine and Hilary Matson now for this soulful conversation.
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Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #11 Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable.
Sustainable Development Goal #16: Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Learn more about Yugen Earthside: https://www.yugenearthside.com/
Connect with Hilary and Yugen Earthside on your favorite social media network: Instagram / LinkedIn / Facebook.
Looking for an adventure in South Africa? Learn more about Yugen Earthside’s upcoming trip!
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). GUEST NAME (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of 2022’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.
Soul of Travel Episode 228 Transcript
Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I am your host, Christine, and we are in our return to Soul of Travel series where I'm talking to past guests and kind of catching up and seeing where they are now.
And I'm very happy to be rejoined by Hillary Matson from Yugen Earth side and she and I talked way back in episode 55. Um, just for context now, we're at about 230, so it was some time ago as well as it was in December of 2021. So many things have changed, um, so I cannot wait to catch up with you and hear what you've been up to.
Hilary: Oh my gosh. I'm so happy to be back and just hearing December, 2021 instantly takes me back. Wow.
Christine: Yeah. Well luckily for you it does. 'cause if I say those dates, I cannot remember at all what's happening in my life in that moment, other than clearly I was. Doing the podcast. Um, but yeah, I think it, it's really interesting and I, I set up all of these interviews and I just kind of reached out to certain people without looking or planning and all of them came out of the second season.
So everybody is kind of rechecking in from 2021. So that happened in an interesting, unplanned way. Um, but I think it's, yeah, it's really great to kind of see, 'cause there's been so many things collectively as an industry that we've experienced and then within our own businesses. And , I think it's a really great point of reflection to, to go back to that time.
Um, just quickly before we get going, people can go back and listen to episode 55 if they wanna like hear your. Startup story, the beginning of your journey. , before we get into our questions, do you wanna share a little bit about who you are, Hilary and a little bit about Yugen, our side. Just for context for this conversation.
Hilary: I would love to. So I am originally from Seattle, Washington and I moved to Paris, France in 2016 and I basically had a big life pivot that's probably in episode 55 as well, where I transferred over to France with Amazon and then decided that was not for me anymore and that I really needed something that was a lot more soul filling, uh, in line with my values and interests. And I left and I earned my MBA still here in France though.
At a school called HEC Paris, and I studied entrepreneurship there. And I had the idea for Yugen Earth side before joining that school program. And so I studied ENT entrepreneurship. I also took a certificate in social and inclusive business because I had from the very, very beginning, uh, the idea that I wanted a social and environmental element incorporated into the DNA of my company. So I graduated in 2020, which also takes us back a little bit, uh, with my business plan for Yugen Earth side. And I decided to forge on ahead anyways. And I'm so happy and proud that I'm still running this company. And the only reason that I really specifically remember December, 2021, in addition to the podcast is that's the, we made our first so's like a really big, pivotal moment for, for my.
Christine: Yeah. Um, I love that. And, uh, I feel it's also really interesting to see now how many businesses started. 'cause I know so many people that launched businesses in 2020 and seeing, you know, what that's looked like for them to kind of ride this roller rollercoaster. Um, which has gone from, you know, like a flat line to like tremendous peaks, um, in the industry.
And so it's like, I, I feel like we've had to grow through a lot of things quickly, like on a much faster scale than businesses that maybe had started in, you know, from 2000 to 2010 or something like that. So, um, I, I just feel like that's a very interesting dynamic that a lot of people didn't experience.
Hilary: Yeah, it was. I was new to the travel industry at that time, and now that I've been in it for a few years, it's really pretty wild. The entry point that I came in because I was building my company when there was still no vaccine in sight, and then we saw the whole wave of revenge travel. Actually first people just taking the trips that all got canceled and then revenge travel and then kind of settling into this new normal and seeing how sustainability has been integrated into that. And you know, now virtual experiences and ai, like there's another wave that's coming right now. But yeah, it's been fascinating to sort of ride that out.
Christine: Yeah. Um, and just to share with our listeners as well, what, um, Yugen Earth side does what you do.
Hilary: Yes, Yugen Earth side is a platform and we sell responsible packaged trips. The company, my Yugen Earth side is actually based in the United States, in Washington state as a social purpose corporation. Uh, and as a platform we find locally owned responsible tour operators and destination the world, and they join our platform and list their. So we find just the coolest companies, about 40% of them are women owned, and you can kind of think of our partners as the mom and pop boutique, local experts. So that is how we get the trips on the platform. And then as a platform, Yugen Earth side does the marketing and the lead qualification, we do the payment processing. Our target market is Americans 50 plus, but we welcome all travelers. So travelers can pay in USD, we take care of, you know, the foreign currency exchange and the wire fees. So we try to make everything super easy for our travelers and for our partners.
Christine: Yeah, it's great. And I think especially when you're looking at those types of businesses, all of those pieces of support are so helpful. I know myself for running a very small group travel company that that's a lot of the times I. Where the stagnation comes from is trying to figure out all of those parts and pieces, like, how do I build in marketing?
Oh my gosh, I didn't think about trying to do an a currency exchange from wherever. Like all of those things are the pain points that kind of hold you back. So I love that you have built that into your process. The other thing that I'm just reminded of, I recently, um, spoke with Joanna Haugen and we were kind of talking about, how to make these choices frictionless.
Like how do we make it easy? Because if it's not easy, people aren't going to do it. And your platform is like an answer to that problem because people. All of that guess work's been taken out of the equation for them. You've already vetted and found these partners to work with that support values, aligned missions.
And so I think, um, that was one of the things when I first learned about you, that I was so excited about because as a traveler, that is what I wanna be able to support. But I also don't often want, as a traveler to spend all that time researching. Now it's very different 'cause I have this wide network of connections and I know who to go to.
But even when we talked, it was a different, you know, my network then was even smaller. So, um, I just, I, I really love this as a, a viable option for people to travel, aligned with their values without having to spend all the time, energy, and effort to find those resources on their own.
Hilary: Totally, and I would love to just add two very quick things that I'm so proud of that we do to make it easier for travelers. The first is that we automatically include carbon removals for every traveler. So you don't need to think about that. We just do it. That does come out of our bottom line, and it does tie back to us being a social purpose corporation.
We really genuinely want to be using travel for good, for the environment, for the local communities, for everything. And the second thing that we do is I actually call us a curated platform because we do have about 20 partners all over the world, but we only have one partner per destination and activity type. So to. Who knows how many companies are doing Kilimanjaro climbs in Tanzania, but we only work with one company and we know them and we trust them, and their sustainability initiatives are incredible. So if you come to Yugen Earth side and you're looking for a Kilimanjaro climb, not only will it be sustainable, but you also don't have to go through endless pages of search results.
We have one trusted provider that we filter all of our leads to, so that's a great thing for travelers and our partners because.
Christine: Yeah, I love that as well because yeah, I, it's kind of like the cereal aisle moment when you're just like, I have no idea. I actually am now not even gonna buy cereal because you just have that paralysis from too many options. So I think it's great. Um, well, I would like to start our conversation kind of diving into some of the wisdom and some of the things that you've learned from.
You know, that point in your journey until now and you know, anything that you think would resonate with our listeners, things that you're proud of? Um, I know you and I had recently chatted a little bit about something you were calling the beginner tax, which I think we experienced in the beginning, but I think we experienced throughout our careers as well.
Hilary: Yeah, I think the beginner's tax happens all the time, and I had not heard this phrase before. I have no idea if this is a commonly used phrase amongst entrepreneurs or amongst anybody in a new job or new environment, but I was just relaying the story that I'm about to tell you to a friend of mine who's also an entrepreneur and owns own business, and I was just complaining like, oh my gosh, this is so frustrating.
Like, I can't believe it's happened. She goes, oh, beginner. And the moment she said it, I was like. Yes, that's it. Okay. It's not, it's not just me like this, this just happens and it's kind of just life. And so what did happen is that a client booked a trip, uh, from the platform directly, which is first of all really exciting because that's what we're trying to build, is like this frictionless experience where they don't have to contact somebody. So they booked a trip. They also booked one of our most expensive trips, which surprised me. I was like, is this real? And it, it was real. Unfortunately, the trip was sold out, which was devastating. And this was indicated on the listing page, but the booking link was still technically open. And that part is frustrating because it's my fault and I, I try not to make mistakes, but I am human after all. So I had to, of course, fully refund the customer. Like it's not their fault. They had paid with a credit card though, and I had never had a customer cancel a trip before. Which is also a lucky thing, but also like such a young company thing, you know, like that's a normal thing that happens. And so I learned when I went to go refund them that my company had to eat their credit card fee, and because they paid for an expensive trip, the credit card fee was also expensive for a small company, not for a big company. And I just was thinking like. This is very clearly detailed in the FAQs, but I've gotta be so honest. I'm just not reading the FAQs of every single, you know, tool and company that, that we're working with. So very, very frustrating. And of course, you know, the customer's just reimbursed in full. This is absolutely not their problem.
This is 100% a beginner's tax problem. Uh, and so now, now I know, now I can figure out how to move forward if this is just a business cost that I have to be ready for, or if I want to modify our cancellation policy. And then that means thinking through how does this affect the customer? 'cause I don't want customers to have a bad experience. So a lot goes into it, but it definitely took me by surprise. And I think every single business owner has that experience where they have an unexpected cost for something that they feel like they should have known or they could have done differently, or, you know, just, just silly mistakes really. But it costs money sometimes.
Christine: Yeah, and you know, sometimes their financial taxes and sometimes their energetic taxes, right? There's all these things that, especially as you know, solopreneurs or working with small teams. There's only so many things you've already, you know, known or experienced, and you have to learn it on the job, right?
It's literally on the job training sometimes in the worst way. But I think the other thing that I loved about, you know, when you shared this moment was, you know, other people saying, oh, well here's other things I've already learned the hard way. And I think, you know, that's one of those things that understanding how important your community networks are and your entrepreneur entrepreneurial networks and your industry networks are for certain things like this.
And, you know, sometimes it's an after the fact solution. Sometimes it's, you know, if you're getting. Involved in doing operations a different way. Like saying like, Hey, anyone have any things I need to look out for as I'm expanding this part of my business in this way? And I think what's been really amazing for me to see is when people actually share that wisdom with one another and they don't expect other people to fail the same way they did, or to push through the hard path the same way they did.
Like they actually wanna help you get there faster.
Hilary: Yeah, I love that you say that because certainly one of my favorite things about the tourism industry, and at least the network in the sustainable space that I have encountered, is that people are so helpful and so kind and so collaborative, and I really appreciate that and it was a huge culture shock coming from a company like Amazon, which is like a pretty intense, rigorous environment most of the time. And I think it's so cool and I, I have been pushing myself to post on LinkedIn more, and sometimes I share these little anecdotes or I share things I'm struggling with and the people that come out of the woodwork to say, well, here's how I've tried this, or have you thought about doing this? It's really, it's, it's just kind of like, you know, walking into a big hug.
Like it's really comforting knowing that, that it's such a supportive community.
Christine: And I, I, I don't know if it happens across the board, but like you said, I, I definitely see it too, and it, it always just makes me a little bit proud of. Of our space that people show up like that for one another. And, um, yeah, just thankful that, that those resources exist. Um, is there any other, any other things that you wanna share that, you know, really stand out to you as something that you went through or learned, um, or are celebrating kind of in this period of time?
Hilary: The other, yes. The other big learning, it's gonna sound so obvious that it might be like a little annoying, but as a small company, we just don't have the funds for paying for ads. Like we can't do the pay to play. We can't compete on that. And I had been avoiding making short form videos, a la Instagram reels, uh, for a while.
It's time consuming. I didn't know if it would work, whatever. Lots of reasons. And I. I finally just forced myself to also start doing that. I was like, you know what this is, it's a path that I haven't tried yet. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs or company owners can relate to. Like, you just need to keep experimenting. Like the game's not over until you haven't, until you've tried everything. And this is something that I haven't tried yet. So at the beginning of the year, I committed to only making short form video content, whether it was about our trips or company updates or whatever, but no more static grid posts ever. And the response has been incredible. And part of me is just like hugely annoyed with myself that I didn't lean into this sooner. And part of me is so happy that I did take the plunge, and I really wanted to share this here because I know that it's uncomfortable. And also anybody can do this for their business or for their company, or for whatever they're working on. And we have been able to just exponentially increase our organic exposure to real travelers. We have gotten more trip inquiries than I can count, like it is actually driving website traffic, whereas before our static posts weren't. And I've done some a and B tests comparing the static posts with similar images, similar caption that we posted sometime in 2024, and then looked at the results from a 60 to 92nd video using the same pictures as green screen with my face so people can see me talking over those photos and describing the trip. The response is just phenomenal. Our videos are getting shared and saved and like, it's just incredible. So seeing that work has been so fun and very motivating, and I really hope that this will be the nudge that somebody else out there needs to just like start trying video content even. Even if it makes you cringe.
Christine: Yeah. Um, well, you may just be speaking directly to me here because I mean, I know other people's people as well, but, uh, I have had such a hard time with it and, um, this year, this season we started because I'm using a different recording software, it makes it a little easier. We always, or not always, but for a long time we've been doing.
Audio clips from each episode, which I thought, well, yay, that's great. That's something in that direction. But then as soon as we started adding the video to it, to the, like outtake, those get so many more views, then just the audio did even, you know, with the picture of a person or whatever. Um, and so I think, yeah, it's, it's very interesting to see like when you follow what the trends are or what people are telling you is getting the most engagement and actually put yourself out there.
And the other thing, and I don't know if maybe, I feel like sometimes my content is harder to sell, to share in a video other than literally just, you know, sharing a clip from what we're doing right now, which should be easy. 'cause I have hundreds of hours of video content.
Um, but like, when I try to think about more serious content and putting it into short form, like into 30, 60, 90 seconds, I'm, I'm always like, okay, how do we talk about, you know, gender equity and travel in 30 seconds? Like, that feels awkward. Or, you know, I was meeting with a, a few, um, content creators and I was like, just joking, but I'm like, grab a cup of coffee.
We're gonna talk about gender oppression and inequity in Guatemala while you're on your next tour. And she's like, yeah, but that's kind of brilliant because people are gonna be like, what is she talking about? Or like. The, the thing that like makes people uncomfortable is sometimes the thing they watch, but I really feel like I was like, I don't wanna do a disservice to the, um, like the heft of the content kind of, or I don't know, like I just had a, I, I still have a hard time both for solo travel and for Lotus Sojourns.
Like finding the balance of like having that seriousness and also then speaking to people in the way they're listening right now. And I know like if you're talking about a trip, it's a bit easier to show images and say like, you know, here's what we're doing. But when I'm trying to add those more serious elements, like for you, how does that look when you're trying to talk about impact or you're trying to talk about some of these initiatives that are maybe a little bit weightier?
Hilary: Great question. I I follow content pillars, which I would recommend for anybody working in marketing or posting. And I have a few different types of, or like categories of videos that I, those are the pillars that I try to post content. And then I have a few different formats and the results. You can try, you can test each one a few times and I think the results will kind of start bubbling up pretty quickly. One of the things that I've noticed that really surprised me to be honest, is that when I post a conversion video, which is a video about a trip that I am trying to sell, they do really well on Instagram. I actually was not expecting that because I don't like feel, I don't like feeling like I'm being sold for, like, I don't wanna feel like I'm watching an ad. I don't want other people to feel like that either, but I do wanna tell them about this really cool trip. And so I really wasn't sure how that was gonna perform, and I actually got advice to make videos about my other content and then just like sprinkle in. As I went and as we got more engagement and kind of started building up this video content, and at least for me it that wasn't true.
When I make a video about the benefits of self-guided tours or the fact that we are doing automatic carbon removals, the response is like, okay, and then I make a video about a really cool scuba diving trip and it got 80,000 views, and I'm like, oh, okay. People, people, do they want that trip to feel like it's coming to life a bit? So I think there is a way, I actually think it's very important to have both types of content because nothing is single faceted, right? Like you're always gonna have these different components. So I do wanna make an effort where people know who I am as a person and as a traveler, and as a founder, what my company is all about, why they're our target audience and what our trips are about.
But. The way that each of those categories of videos perform really surprised me. And it's also different by platform, which is a little, yeah.
Christine: Yeah. Well, and I haven't played around too much other than Instagram and Facebook, so I know there's so many options these days. But again, and we're gonna talk a little bit about this too, about like where your energy goes. Um, but that's one of those things I was like, that's just not where my energy is going right now.
Christine: Um, one of the other things that I'm really excited to hear about from you, um, I know that you've been going through the process of b um, applying for B Corp. And, um, I'm excited for you because I'm just like so excited that your business is to the place where you're doing that. Um, and I know how important that values alignment is and being able to communicate that is, I also know it's.
Such a process. It's very intense and time consuming. So speaking about like knowing where to put your energy and your personal resources, I'm just curious from you to hear from you like what that has been like for a smaller company. Um, you know, maybe what you've learned from that process, what you would recommend for people considering it to do, like before they even go down the road of applying and, um, like maybe any other certifications you've looked at, um, as opposed to B Corp, if there were any.
Hilary: I have so much to say here. I. I'm really, really excited about B Corp as well. It's been on my radar for years that this is something that it just feels so natural for my company. And I actually started to fill out the B impact assessment about a year and a half ago, and I actually stopped because it was very time consuming and I was like, I actually don't have time to make any of these changes that I'm not already doing. That said, I got invited, I think late last year or early this year. I got invited by the company called Lytics, which is the company that does our carbon neutral certification as, as a website, as a company.
Um, and they invited me to be part of their B core cohort cohort. And so it's Yugen Earth side and a few other companies, and they are kind of handholding us through this process.
And that was like the motivation I needed because they're giving me timelines and they're reviewing my answers and they're giving me advice on what things I should fix, like what's low hanging fruit. And it's been a really fascinating process. So it is, it is a little time consuming to fill out the impact assessment. By the way, I had to completely start over, like nothing from a year and a half ago was valid anymore. And one thing that I have learned through that. Which I'm relieved is that my company is already doing so many of the things. So when you start looking into B Corp there, the average company will earn around 50 points. Like a company that's not trying to get B Corp. The B Corp minimum is 80 points and the scale goes all the way up to 200 points. I don't think most companies have, you know, a score that's like 150 plus. And this was something I really wanted to figure out. Like, okay, that's a big range. So what does that mean?
Where are travel companies or where are any companies actually, and I recently found out that you can go on B Corp's website and search for any B Corp company. So if a company says their B Corp, you can validate that that's public information. Not only that, you can see their score. So you can see if it's 80.5 or if it's 120. And you can see how that score breaks down into the different categories of the B impact assessment. So for me, I think that's really cool because I can go look at travel companies that I really admire and say, okay, where's the bar? Where's the bar today? And I intrepid recently did a collaborative post with B Corp.
And so I was like, Ooh, Intrepid, what's your score? I didn't know yet that I could just look it up myself. And I think they have a hundred and 101 or 102. It's like over a hundred, but it's not like 150. So I was like, okay, Intrepid is like amazing, sustainable travel company. So I feel like if I could hit a hundred, I'd feel really proud of that. And with the Beat Impact assessment, my status right now, it's just around like 68, almost 70. So it's very clear that I'm past that 50 mark that my company, by default, or, or by design, I should say, is doing a lot more than just the standard company. And it's also clear that I'm not meeting the bar yet.
And so that's what I'm working on now with the lytics team of like, what can Yugen Earth side be doing to incorporate enough to get us at least past that 80 point marker, which is completely possible, just requires work. Um, and then, and then kind of a fun challenge to see, you know, how much, how much more can we push past that?
Christine: And I think it's a great tool, you know, for businesses, like when I first started Lotus Sojourns, like I, I looked at that just as a, a template. Kind of like you, I'm like, I just wanna build it this way from the beginning. Even if I don't ever try for that certification, I wanna understand, I wanna use this kind of as a roadmap to building a company that operates in the way that I think it should operate.
Um, so I, I would just mention that, that that's a great resource for people to, to understand and then like you said, to see like, am I, am I hitting it, hitting, you know, where most companies are, am I a little bit above that? How can I challenge myself to, to be better if that's what my goal is, which I hope that's what everybody's goal is.
But, um, and then, I was thinking about, when you're a tour operator and you are kind of looking down your chain of your service providers, you know, like in that process, sometimes it takes into account all of the operators I'm contracting with.
I was wondering for you, since you're a platform, is it based on your actions as an individual business or because you are also selling trips, do the trips that you sell impact your score? I was just curious about what that looks like.
Hilary: It is all connected in some way, and that is part of what makes obtaining certification challenging and meaningful, is that it is a look comprehensively at your supply chain. So the different categories of the Bpac assessment. There's five. I might not get them all, but one is about your company operations and like governance.
Internal governance. One is about, you know, your impact on the environment. One is about your suppliers, one is about your customers. So there's these different buckets that they look at. So in theory you could have amazing marks, you know, in the other categories and weaker marks on your supply chain. I wouldn't advise that, but that's why I think like with all certifications, people should actually be a little wary and skeptical and take it with a grain of salt because you don't know what the company is getting points for and what they're not. So I think there's, you know, a little bit of, of a challenging area there, but looking at the supply chain is part of it. And for the B impact assessment, for example, I have sent over the evaluation process. Our proprietary evaluation process of how we look at companies before we invite them to the comp, before we invite them to the platform.
I have sent that tocolytic for them to like review so that they can see, oh yeah, okay. You really are asking this, this, and this about your suppliers and. We have all the supplier responses. So they are kind of like evaluating that to, to see exactly what we do. It's like looking, looking under the hood. And then there's also things, similar things for customers. So like after every trip we send a customer, a traveler, a survey, and we ask things like, you know, did this change your mind about sustainable travel? Did you see anything unsustainable on this trip? So you can really see that our end-to-end process has this incorporated, but that's not something that most people are gonna see. It's something that gets looked at very closely when you're going through the certification process. So yes, we do, we do kind of have to drill down into, into the supply chain, into what our partners are doing. There's only so much I can realistically do. Like I have what they report to me and I have what our travelers report back to me. And those are kind of my two ear pieces. But you know, we're not, we're not a certification company ourselves. So that's kind of the, there's a bit of a limitation to what we can do there.
Christine: Yeah. And I think that can be the messy, difficult, challenging, like those obstacles, and especially for, you know, if I have my operator hat on, those are some of the things that are hard to communicate. It's information that's hard to track, especially like, I really like to work with very small companies where I am.
And so then they're gonna be facing the challenges of monitoring, getting that information. Um, maybe there, there's a consistency in who is working with them. And so I think like there's, there's good and bad to the process. Like I think it's so great to understand the breadth of what your impact is in that way.
And then also like some of these outliers that will just always remain beyond your control are impacting. You being able to get the certification. So then that, that can be really a struggle I think, for some businesses. Um, I wanna, let's, since we're in the sustainability area talking about sustainability and impact, um, how do you think in general, you know, that has evolved?
I know that was like a foundational commitment within your business, but what do you think you're really doing differently now, um, to kind of grow that level of commitment and impact?
Hilary: I think the singular biggest thing is our commitment for carbon removals. For every traveler. This is just a flat amount. We partner with tomorrow's air for this. If anybody listening is not familiar with tomorrow's air, strongly recommend checking them out. They are doing such cool work. Also, if anybody is not familiar with carbon removals, it is a type of carbon offset kind of, but it's different and better. And basically carbon removals are taking carbon, taking CO2 that's in the atmosphere today and removing it from the atmosphere and permanently storing it underground in the soil like it is getting it out of the atmosphere. It's actually literally helping to solve the problem bit by bit. And tomorrow's air is a collective and they find these different companies that are just kind of on the cutting edge of research and development and science to find different ways of, of removing carbon. Carbon offsetting, which most people are more familiar with, is really a reduction. Or an attempted reduction of a future emission. Like it's a hope that I'm gonna plant a tree and in 20 years it's gonna do something. There's a lot of risk with carbon offsets, and it's actually like a very, very touchy subject. People have a lot of passionate opinions about it, but carbon removals. Our, they're just so much more concrete. They're so much more tangible. And so with our travelers, we originally started by, um, we wanted them to include carbon offsets onto their trip. And before we were automatically including the carbon removals, about 50% of our travelers chose to do this. And then something I thought was quite interesting is when we started doing the automatic carbon removals, even though we encouraged them to say, Hey, we are doing this, if you could also do carbon offsets, you know, the more efforts we're taking together, the better travelers have kind of stopped, which is like kind of sad, but also it, the silver lining is that I think they really appreciate that we are taking the more tangible action and that they don't have to think about it.
They don't have to add anything else to their trip. And that what we're doing, you know, is arguably and in my opinion, more, more important and more impactful than carbon offsets. So that, that has been. One evolution of, of our climate journey with our travelers and yeah, I really love it. We can, we can measure that. Oh, I just, there was one other thing with the carbon removals. We started doing a test with our mailing list, uh, you know, the annoying little pop-up that every single website ever has and started saying, Hey, join our mailing list and we'll remove carbon for free for you, free for the person, not for us. And it has actually really helped grow our mailing list. And again, you can think of this as like, okay, that's kind of expensive, but to have a person on your mailing list that's valuable, that's somebody inviting you into their inbox once a week. And those are people that are really interested in our trips and that see that carbon removal as, you know, as a benefit of being part of our, of our mailing list. And it's just been the coolest. Trial and it's been working so well and you know, it's affordable for the moment. I think if it blows up, we might have to modify, but for now we've just been letting it run. So we've probably had it on our site for six plus months and it's just been really, really cool to, to find more ways of making an impact while also growing the audience of the type and quality, for lack of a better word, of traveler that we want in our in.
Christine: Yeah, that feels like a, a, a, a super perfect, um, way because that's, that's also something like the lead magnet or whatever it is that you're giving to someone to get their email. I also really struggle with that because I, like, I know what that space is and then I'm also like, this is valuable, but how valuable, like what you're saying that is really valuable and also as a way of.
Of really getting a dialed in email list. I, I think that is such a, a brilliant, a brilliant way of looking at that. Um, also wanna thank you for mentioning tomorrow's air. Um, they're gonna be in this podcast series later on as a return to hearing, you know, what their journey has been like also since 2021.
Um, and one along the lines with this i, on your website, um, you have impact projects that you support, that align with the US UN SDGs that you're really focused on. Um, I think this is another great way if we're kind of looking at tools for businesses to figure out what they wanna do, what direction they wanna go.
In looking at the SDGs and seeing what. What aligns with your values and then picking one or two and saying, okay, great, I wanna start here. This is where I wanna create impact, and then looking for ways to do that. Um, so I'm curious with you how you determined what SDGs were most important to you and your business, and then how you found projects to support that are in alignment with those values.
Hilary: Very good question. Yeah. The impact projects also have been kind of in our company's DNA something that we wanted to incorporate very early on. And there's 17 STGs. 19, there's
Christine: Yeah. 17.
Hilary: Okay. Had it right the first time. That's, that's good.
Christine: Mm-hmm.
Hilary: Uh, there, there's a lot. And so I do think honing in on a few that feel most important to you is great.
And the ones that we picked are pretty easy. I. Easily connected to our trips or the type of trips we have. For example, like life underwater, we have scuba diving and snorkeling trips. So that kind of makes sense that that would be one of our, one of our SDGs to focus on. I will also tie this back to B Corp. In the B Corp impact assessment. They really loved that we have, you know, mention mentions of the SDGs and what we're trying to do that that is like publicly part of our company profile that it's a good thing. So other companies can also, can also do that. B Corp is actually encouraging us to kind of, as you just mentioned, to hone in even further and say, is there one of these that you could commit to more strongly and say, this is really the one thing that we wanna make an impact and have that be bigger. So I impact projects are of. A state of evolution right now where we're trying to figure out what is the best way to go forward with this, and also how to balance that with being a small company, a small bootstrapped company, uh, especially when we are doing other things like the carbon removals as well. So it is kind of like finding a balance of where can you make impact while running your business and, and how do you communicate that effectively to, to travelers.
Christine: Yeah. Well, I will say, um, only because it's my particular focus. When you look at gender equity, I feel like almost all of the other SDGs are in alignment with that in some way because women are u most often impacted by climate, by education, by, you know, being under resourced with access to water and healthcare and all these things.
So for me, I was, I was trying to do like a broader study on it, and I didn't have time. It was just like one of those things, I'm like, what? You know, how. How much that ties in, and if that's the way that I chose to attack it, if I'm, am I really impacting all these other areas or can I be, um, but I do think honing in on one is, is great.
I do think most people, most businesses would find that inherently there's one of those things that are important to the work that they're doing. Um, whether it's that's what they already know they wanna support or if one of those things is important to the existence of their business, right? So it really makes a lot of sense if you have a dive operation that you would be supporting that SD sdg, right?
Because at some point, if you aren't supporting that, you no longer have a business that is going to be able to run. Um, so I think it's, it's again, just a very easy way to add this layer into the work that you're already doing.
Hilary: Yeah, I also about about gender equity. I mean, clearly we are connected to so many, like amazing women in the tourism industry, but there is huge gender gaps and gender disparity, uh, in, in many, you know, sectors niche and not niche in the tourism industry. And we do incorporate elements of combating that as well.
Like we do track what percentage of our partners are women owned right now. We don't have a strict threshold of how many we have to have or need to have. And this actually came up in the B corp, in the B impact assessment of like, are we, should we set an official threshold to say, okay, at least this percent of our partners will be women owned. But right now our percentage is quite high, around 40%. And, um, we tag on every single trip if it's a woman owned company and that tag is clickable. So if you're on the page of a woman owned trip, uh, like our, or all of our South Africa trips, women owned companies, our yoga retreat, woman owned companies, um, so. You can click on that women owned company tag and see all of our women owned companies, which is super fun to give visibility to around International Women's Day, you know, or, or any day. Um, but trying to just bring visibility and, you know, maybe people wouldn't even think of that as they're booking their trip and maybe they'll see that and think, oh wow, that's extra cool.
Maybe that's gonna be, you know, the final decision factor if the trip looks good and they're comparing it to several others. So really tracking our, the, the partner ratio of women-owned companies and making that visible to help highlight that, you know, we're highlighting this so that people know because there is a problem. And so not only is Yugen earth side woman owned, but you know, by booking through us and by booking one of our trips from a woman owned company, you can be supporting two female funded or female founded businesses.
So that's
cool.
Christine: I, it is great. And I think, um, there's a few other companies that I have, you know, use as a consumer and they will have the kind of dropdown like, shop by Your Values and It, and you'll, you know, pick whatever that is. And I, I think two things are great about that is like, one, it makes it easy for me to do that.
And two, I learn about, like what you were saying, I learn about other values that are important maybe to other people that I hadn't considered. Um, and so it's a great educational tool or just an awareness. And then maybe people are like, oh, I wonder what other brands or companies are noting those kinds of things on their websites or the products that they sell.
And then people can begin to kind of evolve their consumer journey when they have those additional pieces of information. Um, one of the things I always ask every guest on the podcast, which you know, is to kind of share the un SDGs that your business supports, but something I have never done is actually create anything with that data.
And I was like, oh, it would be really cool to say, you know, now over all of these guests over the years, like, here's the impact that we are working towards collectively in this community because, um, yeah, everybody has their own focus. But to see like where the overlap is and what we're really working towards that I think would be interesting.
And I don't know why I had never really thought about doing that other than when you're trying to figure out where to put your energy. That might not be where it's going, but I think, but I think it could be really interesting to talk about. Um, so I, I would love to talk to you, I guess now about kind of growth and mon um, maintaining momentum, which I think, um.
Again, as small businesses, like we have these peaks and waves that are driven by our own, you know, our own internal momentum, but then we also have these things that happen externally where we get more visibility at a conference or winning an award or things like that, that like give us that boost. How do you really dive into like understanding the growth you want and then maybe capturing that momentum when it happens?
Hilary: Oh, that's such a loaded question. I love it though. I, first of all, I don't try to see 10 steps ahead. I always tell myself, as long as I can see three steps ahead, that's fine. And then I'll figure out the next three steps. So I don't think, like, I don't really feel a huge pressure to know what my company is gonna look like in five years, but I do have a really good idea of what I want it to look like by the end of the year.
You know, so,
so thinking in kind of more bite-sized pieces. The other thing I've noticed with momentum is that every. Roughly every three months, kind of like clockwork. I will have some big win, like something just super cool that just energizes me where I'm like, oh, okay, this is happening. We're getting more traction, more momentum. And so every three months, my company really does look different. And if you think of all the three month segments that have happened since 2020. Yeah, so we, we've thought about, we have thought about getting funding. I talked to probably a dozen investors, angel investors last year, and basically one of their big pieces of feedback was that we need to be operating more like a pure platform. And by that they mean the booking link needs to be there and clients need to be able to check out without talking to somebody. And they were absolutely right. And so I spent all of last summer like working on that. And one of the mini milestones that I'm like quite proud of is that last year we got the direct booking links for all of our fixed departure trips. So if there's a Kilimanjaro climb or a yoga tree or a scuba diving trip with marine biologists, if it has a departure date, you can go and book that trip and you don't need to talk to somebody. Of course, that kind of ties back to the beginning of the episode where we had a little hiccup with that. But it's really cool that that's even an option and that travelers are now doing that because. So this year, one of my goals is to finish adding the booking links for all of the self-guided and privately guided trips where people can choose their own departure dates and figuring out. How to, how to incorporate that to make sure we can book everything that we need to further trip. Um, so that, that has been a journey and I've been sort of waiting to, to finish some of these projects and some of the other, what I call pure platform projects before contacting investors again. So we did just recently have, uh, another investor meeting and got invited to a second round.
And any, any person and especially any woman that's had to like go into an investor meeting on their own and just pitch solo, knows the adrenaline and imposter syndrome and pride and all the emotions that come with that. Um, we will also be looking at doing a friends and family round. So, so yes, we have funding on our mind because we have lots of projects that we can see for. Obviously we're still here and it's been a few years. So the, the company itself is running. We are able to operationally do everything we need to do with the revenue that we get from customers. Uh, what we are now trying to do is have the resources to outsource and hire more qualified help to help us, you know, knock off some of these projects for growth that we're looking to do. So there is, there's so much tied up in growth and it's kind of always a, a balance of like, do we, do we want funding? Do we need funding? What are we gonna do with it? Can we do those projects without funding? The answer is usually yes, but not as fast. So, so yeah, I don't, I don't want to have, uh, a unicorn company, like just, I don't want to grow 500000000000% in a year. I really want the growth to be sustainable. I don't wanna lose the, the magic of why we keep getting five star reviews. So we are looking to grow, but at, at a comfortable pace, I would say.
Christine: Well, I think that's great too because, um, this comes up a lot on the podcast, but like, there's no reason to have growth for growth's sake, right? Just because most people think that we wanna have, you know, this level of, um, sales or this level of employees or this level of those metrics for success. I think kind of need to be thrown to the wayside in general.
But I think it's really okay to say like, I just, I wanna grow to this level. It helps me to maintain authenticity and the connection and the intimacy that you have with this community that looks very different than, you know, a large booking platform that doesn't have an offer. That, and, um, I think.
Looking on your website, which is beautiful. Um, I know that's something you've worked very hard on. I think the last time that we met in person, you were getting ready for like a launch, which now it's probably been like two launches since then. But, um, like I, I can, I still feel that personal touch. I don't feel like I've landed somewhere where nobody knows what's going on or, you know, like there, it's not just the list, like we said in the beginning, it's not the serial owl.
I, I feel like someone intentionally curated it. I feel like it aligns with my values personally, and it doesn't, it doesn't feel too big. I still feel like a homey feel, so I, I can really resonate with that.
Hilary: that makes me so happy to hear. 'cause we have worked so hard on that and. That was not a small milestone. That was actually a big milestone because we completely revamped and relaunched the website. Um, two summers ago, maybe it was last summer. No, it was two summers ago. Time is going quickly, but that was a huge project because we were originally built off of WordPress and for the quality of like rich content that we have on each page with images and, you know, FAQs and the itinerary and the accordion format, like everything that goes into the trip listing, uh, it's a bit heavy.
And on WordPress, the more trips we had, like it was just untenable. It was, it was so bloated and it made everything load slowly and it was harder to get it mobile optimized and like nobody is. A 10 day trip if it's not gonna load on their phone, like people's attention spans are so short. So having, having a stable, professional, fast mobile optimized website was really, really critical. And, and now, now we're not on WordPress, we're on another company's content management system called Prismic, and now we can have the partners list their own trips, which is again, kind of ties back to like automation and building this pure platform. But we are no longer listing the trips ourselves, which was mostly my job and very time consuming. So that has been a really, really good improvement in terms of our website. That was
a big one.
Christine: Yeah, it's great. And one of the other things, just like as an outsider, you know, watching your business grow, I love, like when I see you have these hurdles and how. You tackle them. And I guess it's, maybe it's that bite-size, like not getting too far ahead. Um, like you, I, I'm just, I'm so impressed when I'm, when I hear you're like, this is not working in my business.
Okay. Do it. And you do it until it's done, and then you figure out the next thing and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so inspiring for me to just, yeah. To witness that because it, it really is helpful in like showing how well we can move through these hurdles and grow through these obstacles in our business to create the businesses that we really want to have and have them run the way we want them to run.
And really like take the reins in our business.
Hilary: Exactly. I think, uh, first of all, thank you so much. That is, it's so nice to hear and obviously what people are not seeing behind the scenes and when, you know, I'm putting on my video voice is like a lot of late nights and a lot of anxiety and never ending do to-do lists, so that part doesn't really get airtime. Um, but, but yeah, it's super nice to, to hear that. And I also reflect a lot on. If it was easy, I would be bored. I would be so bored. So every time I have a challenge, even if it's a mistake, even if it's a beginner's tax, these things are frustrating because I didn't know it. And when I know it all I or feel like I know it all, I just, I don't, I think it would lose some of the, some of the interests.
Like I think humans want to be challenged and that was certainly something I got a lot of in my last career. And I think that's what keeps making this job and running this company exciting, is that I absolutely don't know everything yet and there's so much room to make things better and so many more, you know, puzzles to solve and hurdles to jump.
That that part is, is very motivating and not a lot of people are in that position. Like, I understand that what I'm going through is a pretty unique experience and it's my experience. So it's been nice to just step into that and, and really own it.
Christine: Yeah, I, I think it's definitely how the entrepreneurial journey is a personal growth journey as well, and it like reflects. What we want out of life in general. Um, okay. So I have one more question, um, before we do our rapid fires, um, I'm just curious if you can share, you know, uh, um, one way that you think would be helpful to help people grow their mindset or grow their skillset or grow their business.
If there's something that's like a actionable takeaway. Um, maybe besides just making short form content, which they, we now know we all need to do.
Hilary: Uh, I have kind of like a two-parter for this, but they, they go together. I gamified my goals this year and I created a business bingo board for myself, and I have it as my phone background and I have it auto scheduled to my work hours. So every time I pick up my phone during my work hours, I'm seeing my goals for the year and when I check them off, you know, that's very exciting.
And I update my phone wallpaper and I think it's so fun. And some of those goals are very tangible input goals. Like, oh, we wanna get to this many Instagram followers. Okay. That only means so much. I have another goal where I want to make our first sale from a lead that came from Instagram. Like, I want hard proof that all those videos are actually converting. And so that's an output goal. So I think blending, you know, kind of short term, achievable input goals with, uh, with more stretch output goals. Across the different areas of your business. And again, as an entrepreneur, I'm covering all the areas. So I have a breadth of, of goals to choose from. But I think that is like a super fun way to, for me at least, to really stay focused.
And it also gives you like a space to share that like when you check something off, you can share that to your Instagram stories, you can share that to LinkedIn and bring people on this journey with you so that they can celebrate your wins. But at the same time, you're putting out into the universe what you wanna accomplish.
And I think there is so much to be said for that type of manifestation. And if, I mean like very, very small example, I set a goal for myself to have 10 PR features this year. I didn't know if that was a lot or a little. And literally within the last few weeks. This is actually the second podcast I've recorded this week. I recorded a radio segment yesterday. Never done that before. Got quoted in my first Yahoo News article last week, and I have an interview scheduled to be published in April, and I'm like, whoa, maybe all of this would've happened regardless. But I set this as a goal. I look at it every day. And I say yes to opportunities and people know that I'm looking for those opportunities. And so now I'm finding myself at the end of March and I'm almost halfway through that. Like, okay, maybe I need to change my goals. So that's a really fun thing. And then the second thing that's part of that, because this is also on my bingo board, is that I realized that last year I kind of got a little too heads down in the weeds in the day to day and I stopped being as mindful about kind of pulling my head up and looking at what else is happening in the industry or other ways that I could be learning. So I also have set a goal for myself to attend a certain number of webinars this year. And it's not really hard to like find those webinars. I feel like I just didn't say yes to them last year. And so now I'm saying yes to them and logging those webinars and choosing ones that are relevant and helpful for me and they've been so great. And um, I just think having that clarity of like, this is really what I'm trying to grow this year. Is is helpful to see. And so anyways, yesterday I attended a webinar about generative AI and how marketing can feed into generative ai. You know, like that that's coming, that's happening. So, but I think giving myself that space, being like, okay, I get to check off another webinar.
And it was really interesting and it's something that maybe it wouldn't have made time for before, but I think continuously pushing yourself to be learning and stay curious and, you know, broadening, broadening the perspectives that you have in your world is super important.
Christine: Oh my gosh. I love both of those things so much. So thank you for sharing those. Um, okay. To wrap up our conversation, um, Hillary, we'll start with what are you reading right now?
Hilary: I'm reading The Hobbit and I'm only laughing because I've actually never read it and I feel. Very awkward about that. And starting last year, I just decided that I was gonna become a reader. And so I am using Audible. That's kind of my gateway. I know it's not the same as reading reading, but I love going for morning walks and that's my me time.
And I listen to my Audible on my morning walks and yeah, I'm like 60% through the Hobbit. It's, it's quite good.
Christine: Yeah, um, I love that and I used to really be, because I do love to read like opposed to Audible, but also now there's certain authors. It's so great to spend that time with them and like have them tell you all the things, um, like especially, you know, memoirs or, you know, more nonfiction, nonfiction books.
But I enjoy some fiction audible as well, so I, I won't let you take away any, from any way, anything away from that experience being on Audible. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Hilary: I always, always, always have an eye mask and these really cool like silicone, um, earplugs that are like washable and reusable instead of those like foam ones that get so gross. I love, I love those things. They're so great. I just, as I, you know, become wiser, more, more rotations around the sun, my sleep has just gotten so much more sensitive and now I like, I need it to be quiet.
I need it to be dark. Especially if you're trying to take a nap on like a train or a plane. Dunno who's next to you in the hotel room over. I just, I have to know that I can be able to sleep well. So I'm asking earplugs.
Christine: Yeah, those are good things. Um, to sojourn, uh, to me means to travel somewhere with the respect as if you live there. Uh, where is someplace that you would still love to sojourn?
Hilary: Oh my gosh. I think there's so many places right now and there's a lot of places I wanna go back to. Um, I, I've been hearing a lot lately about Morocco and the Philippines and I would, those are such different destinations, but living in France, I feel so close to Morocco than I'm kind of like, how have I not been there yet? And we had an amazing woman-owned partner doing our Morocco trips and the Philippines, uh, an acquaintance of mine just did her bachelorette party there. And I think I had just never really seen a lot of like, images of the Philippines. I don't really know why and everything she posted, I was just like, that looks incredible. So I feel like that's a little bit under the radar. Like I've been to Thailand and it kind of is giving similar vibes ish. But yeah, those would be my top two right now.
Christine: Thank you. Um, what is something you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Hilary: I am gonna say ramen, and I'm just like, I wonder how predictable I am. 'cause I now wanna go back and listen to our first episode and I probably also said ramen, but traveling to Japan was one of my favorite trips that I've ever done. And sitting in those little individual stalls with a little window and sliding your ramen order through it and eating with those gigantic bowls, that is just heaven.
So I love, I love a good bowl of ramen, especially on like a cold, rainy day, which Paris is no stranger to.
Christine: Yeah. Um, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world? I.
Hilary: My parents and this, I, I hope this answer hasn't changed. I'm sure it hasn't, but yeah. I did an incredible study abroad program in university called Semester at Sea where I was living on, on a ship and we circumnavigated the, the globe and went to 10 different countries. And before that I think I had been to Canada, Mexico, and France on a school trip and that was kind of it.
So that was just hugely eye-opening. I turned 21 on that trip, so I was quite young. And this is like back in the days where you had to find an internet cafe and pay by the minute if you wanted to have contact with the outside world. And you know, certainly no cell phones and GPS to get everywhere. Very, very different time.
But that was, that was for sure what gave me the travel bug.
Christine: Yeah. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
Hilary: Oh my gosh. So before The Hobbit, I read Ina Garten's memoir and it was so fun and she narrates that. So that actually is a really good one to read on, on Audible or to listen to on Audible. Um, her story is just so cool and she loves France so much and she loves food and cooking so much. So I think it would be a blast to travel in France or anywhere with like a food heavy culture, food focused culture and travel with Ina How cool would that be?
Christine: It would be fun. I think she would be a fun travel companion. Yes. Um, okay, last question. Soul of Travel is a space for honoring, uh, women in the tourism industry. Who is one woman you would like to recognize today?
Hilary: Oh my gosh. Do I have to pick just one? Um. I can't, there's, there's so many, like, I'm, I'm thinking first of all, of all of our like women owned partner companies. Um, but also Hazel is the gal at Lytics who has given us the nudge to become carbon neutral and to help us with B Corp certification. And she is just phenomenal. And then, you know, I also just look up to, to Christina at tomorrow's air so much, uh, as well. So those are two women that are just kind of constantly sort of pushing the boundary in terms of really driving actionable change and bringing other people into the world to help multiply the, the power of, of that impact.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you. Um, and thank you for joining me. Thank you for coming back and, uh, sharing, you know, your journey, um, up to this point. And hopefully we can talk again in another four years and, and see what you're up to then.
Hilary: That would be amazing. I hope I have some great stories to tell by then.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you.
Hilary: Thank you.
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