Episode 247 - Karin Jones, Artisans of Safari & Safari ChangeMakers Podcast
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Karin Jones.
Editor’s Note: We would love to dedicate this episode to the great Dr. Jane Goodall. We remember and honor her legacy of justice, conservation, and compassion. To support the continuation of her work, visit the Jane Goodall Institute.
Karin Jones is the Founder & CEO of Artisans of Safari, a bespoke safari company dedicated to creating meaningful, conservation-centered journeys across Africa. With nearly four decades of experience designing safaris since 1987, Karin has been recognized on Travel + Leisure’s A-List and Condé Nast Traveler’s Top Travel Specialist list for Africa in 2025.
Her work goes beyond crafting luxury itineraries—she uses travel as a tool for positive change. Through her deep relationships with Africa’s leading conservationists, guides, and lodge owners, she connects travelers with transformative experiences that support wildlife protection, empower local communities, and rewild African tourism.
Karin is also the creator and host of the Safari ChangeMakers video podcast, spotlighting Africa’s conservation pioneers and tourism innovators—from gorilla guardians in Uganda to anti-plastic warriors in Zimbabwe—amplifying voices that are reimagining the future of travel.
For Karin, a safari is never just a trip—it’s a way to create impact, purpose, and lifelong connection.
Slow Travel with Intention
From the very start, Karin’s path toward conservation and tourism was paved with curiosity, grit, and heart. “I am a New York City born girl…Moved to Los Angeles about 34 years ago, have raised a family here and have been in the travel business since 1987.” She shares that while safaris have been around since the 1980s and earlier, they were more raw, with fewer lodging options and communications. She recounts the story of communicating with her first guide (via fax machine!) and her first safari in Botswana.
Immediately, the laws of travel took over; many of the things that could go wrong did. “We ended up getting stuck in a river…watching for crocodiles,” Karin shares. The experience, for Karin, may have been jarring in the moment, but generated feelings of connection and exploration that have persisted throughout her entire career.
The pair discuss that sometimes, the ease of modern travel takes some of the magic of spontaneity away. They encourage travel experiences that save room for slow drives with few places to be, the detours, blurred roles, and building relationships with local communities.
That intentional pace still sits at the center of how Karin designs journeys today. She prepares guests for the unscripted, the true teacher in the bush: “Africa sometimes does have unexpected moments, and sometimes those are the best moments.” She invites travelers to decide—“are you looking for everything to… be exactly the way that you are picturing it? Are you also hoping to have a couple of little adventures here and there?” She’s practicing what she encourages: “it’s gonna be like two months of being in the moment,” she said of her planned January–March 2026 season in Africa, including a soulful month in Cape Town.
Conservation and Community-Based Tourism
Of course, mindful travel is never only about the traveler. It’s about our footprint, our relationships, and whether we leave more dignity and positivity than disruption.
Karin has witnessed an encouraging shift in how lodges and camps are built, owned, and run. “If you build something and it’s not incorporating the local people… then they have less of a reason to focus on taking care of the wildlife,” she explains. The approach that works is rooted in partnership and includes approaches like leases with tribal landholders, revenue-sharing conservancy models, local employment and training. In this way, taking care of the wildlife becomes a livelihood, not a liability.
“The monies from, um, the conservancy fees, which is where our tourism dollars are going, just helps conservation,” she shares.
Christine echoes the power of seeing impact up close: “Travel allows us to even support one another in conservation efforts and community efforts,” she reflects. When travel is designed with this intention and eye toward sustainability and pro-conservation, we replace abstraction with empathy and start to ask better questions: Who benefits? Who decides? How do we help?
Storytelling and a Platform for Amplifying Voices
Inspired by her experiences and conversations with guides, local community members, Karin’s answer is often to tell a story alongside the people living it. That’s why she launched Safari ChangeMakers, a video-forward podcast that gives guests a platform and opens a window into the heartbeat behind safari.
“To talk about the stories behind safari… I’m just so inspired by these people that I wanna share it,” she says. The series interweaves conversation with film clips from the field, shaped by Karin’s eye and her husband’s background in radio, television, and film. The result lands somewhere between a podcast and a documentary and feels intimately connected with real experiences.
One forthcoming episode shines light on the essential, often-unseen role of trackers. “I’m gonna do a whole episode on trackers,” Karin says, explaining how in Southern and parts of East Africa, expert Shangaan trackers read the bush like a book—“a broken twig, footprints”—moving on and off the vehicle with the guide, sometimes translating their insights through multiple languages.
Safari Changemakers also tackles the complex topics we encounter in real travel: climate reality, human-wildlife coexistence, and gender equity. Karin is clear-eyed about the gap between traveler expectations and quiet, long-term work on the ground. “Clients don’t necessarily come and say, it’s very important to me that you pick a company that has a strong corporate responsibility, policy,” she explains. “But I know what I’m doing for them behind the scenes.”
Sometimes the story is raw and revelatory, like “period poverty,” a term Karin heard from a lodge team in Tanzania. They’re “providing, um, reusable menstrual products to young women in the schools in Tanzania so that they don’t have to miss school and drop out of school.” As she put it, “it’s a women’s empowerment program at the end of the day,” often paired with women guide training. The efforts are deeply shifting narratives by changing who gets to lead.
Karin recently recorded with Emma and Jeremy Borg of Painted Wolf Wines, wildlife artist Lynn Barrie, and a Zimbabwe-based conservationist leading wild dog research. The conversation weaves provenance, palate, and purpose: “why Emma and Jeremy decided to name their wine company, painted Wolf Wines,” how “we learn so much about wild dogs and wine and art,” and the way travelers can meet the pack—at the winery in Paarl, in the art, and on the savannah. As she shared gleefully, “we’re gonna, uh, design a trip. In 2027 that incorporates all those elements with those people,” a perfect distillation of her approach: amplify the story, then invite travelers to walk into it with care.
Of course, deep travel requires deep listening. Karin avoids extractive or voyeuristic experiences by building relationships, context, and consent into the itinerary and her storytelling.
She intentionally works with smaller camps and lodge partners to facilitate genuine exchange, with thoughtful questions, shared projects that make space for reciprocity, and moments to debrief and process. Christine adds how valuable that reflection can be: so many of the insights live in the conversation after the encounter, where we can name the inequities we felt but couldn’t place, and begin to act on them with humility.
Karin also designs for the whole person, not just the traveler. If you’re a chef, you might forage with a local cook. If your teens are with you, perhaps a visit to a school program that mirrors their world from another angle.
“People say, oh, I know I’m making this really complicated for you,” she smiled. “The more complicated it is, the more work I have to kind of do to source it and make the experience something special.” It’s the opposite of one-size-fits-all. It’s travel as dialogue between your passions and the place you’re meeting.
Most of all, remember that travel is a relationship. It asks for your attention and offers its own in return.
Honoring the Legacy of Dr. Jane Goodall
In the rapid-fire section, Karin shares that the person she’d most love to adventure with is Dr. Jane Goodall. Recorded before her recent passing, we would love to dedicate this episode to her, and take this moment to point listeners toward the Jane Goodall Institute.
“Those days of getting ‘stuck’ on safari… are some of my favorite memories… Africa sometimes does have unexpected moments, and sometimes those are the best moments.”
Soul of Travel Episode 247 At a Glance
In This Episode, Christine and Karin Jones discuss:
The magic of slow, intentional travel, being present, and embracing detours
Highlighting women guides, trackers, and lodge leaders to shape the safari story
How to design trips to combine conservation with community benefit
Traveling with empathy, awareness, and stewardship
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To discuss advertising or sponsoring an episode, reach out to Christine at souloftravelpodcast@gmail.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Explore bespoke Africa safaris with Artisans of Safari.
Connect with Karin on your favorite social media network! Instagram / Facebook / LinkedIn
Subscribe to the Safari Changemakers podcast! YouTube / Spotify
Donate to honor Dr. Jane Goodall’s legacy.
If you’re interested in learning more about climate justice for professionals in tourism and travel, visit RISE Travel Institute to learn more about the new Carbon Literacy program.
Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #6: Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #10: Reduce inequality within and among countries.
Sustainable Development Goal #13: Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts.
Sustainable Development Goal #15: Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss.
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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
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Soul of Travel Episode 247 Transcript
Key Words: women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I am your host, Christine, and today I am very happy to be continuing our series, focusing on women working in Africa. And today I am joined by
Karin Jones, , who is the founder of Artisans of Safari and Safari Change Makers, which is a podcast slash video series.
Um, I feel like it's way highbrow for a podcast, but it's called a podcast. So anyway, I'm so excited, Karin, to have you here and, um, to hear about all of your work in the industry and to continue learning more about working in Africa.
Karin: Well, I'm excited to be here. I've been listening to your podcast for so long and so inspired by the women and so pleased to be here and be part of it.
Christine: Yeah, it's fun. There's so many people who've been on the podcast who I know through different community organizations, so we've been near to each other for like four or five years, but finally got to have an actual conversation not too long ago. And I love that this space allows me that time to connect with people that maybe you wouldn't, I wouldn't have the opportunity for me.
That's, that's a real treasure. And so I'm, I'm really glad that we're here.
Karin: Me too.
Christine: , well, to kick off our conversation, I'm going to just turn it over to you and give you a minute to introduce yourself to our listeners and tell , them a little bit more about your business and then we'll dive deeper after that.
Karin: Okay. Well, I am a New York City born girl who. Moved to Los Angeles about 34 years ago, have raised a family here and have been in the travel business since 1987. Um, prior to that, I actually studied education and was a special ed teacher, and then moved into, uh, the travel business in that late 1980s period when things in Africa were really different.
Uh, I, I sort of fell into that job. I answered a little tiny ad in a newspaper in Hamilton, Wenham, Massachusetts. And next thing I knew, I was working in the safari industry per se, and, uh, then did my first trip to Africa in 1989. And things were really different then. It was, it was, it was very raw.
Things were just a little, a little bit different. You know, the, the trips were, were, um, set up in such a way that, um, you know, it was more of a focus on, um, less on selecting safari lodges for clients and, and really more looking at destinations and just picking what was available in Africa. There just wasn't as much as what there is now.
Um, so my career has taken me through different safari companies that I've worked with and, um, always really focused on custom. Designing trips for clients, getting to know the clients, and, and the longer that I've been in it and the more lodges and the more developed these, these different parts of Africa have, have gotten, I think it's, been more important for me to spend more time in Africa.
And over those years I've gotten to meet so many incredible people, and I think that's really what has kept me in the industry this long is the friendships and the, just the incredible work that people are doing in Africa. It's just such an inspiring place and I, I never get tired of it every single day.
I'm excited and challenged, uh, learning new things, learning about. Just a little bit more about the destination and I always kind feel like a beginner despite the fact that I've been doing it this long. You know, I was like, God, I didn't know that. Uh, and and that's such an incredible, I think, way to be in your work.
You know, it keeps you really inspired. So, um, I started Artisans of Safari and it's a a bespoke safari operator where we get to know who the client is. Um, sometimes I work directly with other travel planners and their clients, and they've sort of found that if they're more of a generalist, it's nice to have specialists.
For different parts of the world. You know, if they're working to send someone to Japan, they're gonna work with someone who just specializes in Japan for, and then for for Africa, I have, you know, these incredible travel planners who turn to me and we partner for Africa. And then I'll also work directly with clients as well.
If they come to me, you know, through a referral.
Christine: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you for walking through some of that. And as you mentioned, you've been in the industry for some time and I, I had taken my notes when we talked before and I, I had written 38 years and I was like, I think that was a typo. And then I went on your website and I was like, 38 years. And I was like, okay, that wasn't a typo.
And then I started doing the math and I was like, oh yeah, I've been in the industry almost 30 years. I was like, huh, okay. I guess that's how long we've been doing this thing is like, I'm, I don't know how that happens is all I'm trying to say. And also, one of the things you and I were kinda laughing about when we first started talking is.
How different travel is. And you, you know, you mentioned that travel in Africa was very different when you first started, and in my mind I've kind of imagining kind of this nostalgic safaris that we all used to think of that maybe a lot more felt like luxury roughing it. You know, like there, there weren't so many options as you were saying.
So it was just a different type of travel, as was travel. So many places that we went. And then you add some of the factors of, you know, technology and communications and like how we traveled was very different and how we arranged and planned and communicated. Like, I think it's so easy to be here and forget what things looked like then in terms of travel.
And I feel like if you set us all back there now, we would be like. I don't know how to do this without cell phone, without the, I can't Google that. I don't know how to, you know, like it was such a different, it was just a different working environment.
Karin: It, it was, and that's kind of what I was stumbling on. It was like, I'm just trying to describe it. Not saying that it wasn't, I mean it was, it was amazing actually. And it was just more simple, you know? But the communication was a major thing. I mean, I remember getting our first fax machine, we were on telexes in that company that I worked for, you know, and my first boss was, uh, he was, you paid per word, uh, per letter, per letter.
So when I was typing, he would say, Nope, cut that down. Make that a little bit shorter. You know, so I'd be sending these telexes, you know, and, you know, um, PLS for please. I mean, that was, that's where I think modern texting sort of goes back to tele Xing. So going from telex to fax was really something when we got that fax machine. I was working with this woman named Jill Spells in, in Botswana, and she was like my main contact there. And I remember writing on a piece of paper and writing Hi, Jill, and like, feeding it into the fax machine and going, this is so incredible.
I, I can't believe that I'm sending this through. And she, in about a second is gonna be able to read in Botswana, like the idea. And I hadn't been there yet, this is before I went. And um, sure enough, you know, she writes me back, hi Karin, you know, and it was like magic, you know. And then to actually go to Botswana and have Jill pick me up at the airport, you know, in 1989.
And so my first safari guide was a, was a woman. It was Jill.
Christine: Hmm.
Karin: and off we went driving together and that's a great story, which I could tell if you want me to, but
Christine: Well, I, yeah, I just, I love that and it, it just is funny how I feel like sometimes today's ease. Of travel just takes away some of the magic, because like you were saying, just those things, they were really magical because we, we really didn't know, and the, like, the labor and the thoughtfulness and the intention, like all of these things were slow.
So it was like, not only was slow travel happening, maybe on the ground, but slow travel and like these, there just wasn't immediate gratification, so you had to take time to build relationships and conversations and, um, I, yeah, I just love that. I, I definitely get nostalgic for that way of being and like being able to be lost or just not having everything at your fingertips.
There's something about who that makes you become as a traveler.
Karin: And on that day that Jill picked me up, we ended up getting stuck in a river. And, and it's a whole story. I won't tell the whole thing, but we got, after many hours in this river where I ended up sitting on top of the, the Safari Land Rover, um, watching for crocodiles. That was my job. 'cause we were in this river on a bridge that had sort of collapsed a little bit.
And then we finally got pulled out by Jill. She was dropping me off to meet up with these, these other, um, people that were gonna take me to the camp. And so when she pulled us back out of the river, you know, my first. Response being a girl from New York City back at that time, I had not moved to LA by then.
I said, are we gonna call somebody? And they all started laughing at me. You know, I'm thinking auto club. And you know, there's like, first of all, no, we didn't have cell phones back then and there was no one to call. They just had to work on the engine to get it dried out from being in that river. And then I said, are we gonna camp out here?
You know, and again they're all laughing at me saying, no, we have to, we have a beautiful camp waiting for us on the other side of the river. We're gonna try again to get across. We've got dinner there. You know. And it was hours, hours and hours of them just working on the engine and getting us across, you know?
And those days of getting stuck on safari. 'cause there are many other times that you get stuck. are some of. My favorite memories, you know? And I don't think clients necessarily today look at things the same way. They kind of want everything to work perfectly, you know? And we're very focused on making everything work, not getting stuck, things like that.
Even though it was an adventure, it was fun, you know? so.
Christine: Yeah. I think many of us wish, wish for those experiences, and maybe that's from the industry side. I don't know, as planners and tour operators, like maybe we, um, enjoy that process more. And obviously if you're paying for an experience, there's some level that you expect. However, I know for myself, like I do love those moments.
And I remember being in Africa about 20 or so years ago, and my job was to, um, lean for a couple of hours out the window with a flashlight, shining it on the road as far ahead of us of the car. Even the lights on the truck could reach because the little towns we would go through would build. Speed humps or like walls, and it would just be like whatever they could kind of stack and you didn't wanna hit that with your vehicle going full speed.
And so yeah, that was one of my first experiences. And then also all of a sudden the road kind of being in poor condition and everyone deviating off the road, like out into the fields and just like going. And then at some point it was like little ants scurrying and then they all kind of funneled back onto the road later.
And I'm from rural Montana. I grew up driving on dirt roads and back roads and on my grandparents' ranch, but I was like, this is feeling even a little bit crazy for me. I'm like, this is dozens and hundreds of people just like scurrying and then coming back and that. That was fun. Like you were saying, like just, it, it was a different than our daily experience, certainly different growing up in New York for sure.
And, um, yeah, I, I, I love when we can bring that into our travelers experience in a way that, um, you know, allows them to tap into some of that honest magic about a destination.
Karin: Yeah, and I talk to clients about it, you know, um, are you looking for everything to, to uh, be,, exactly the way that you are picturing it? Are you also hoping to have a couple of little adventures here and there? Because Africa sometimes does have unexpected moments, and sometimes those are the best moments.
And if, and I think if I prepare clients for that, then. They relax and, and I think they, you know, eventually they get to Africa and they just start to unwind and, and, and just go, wow. Because you're so in the moment when you're there. I mean, I know when I'm there, um, and I'm planning to spend a couple of months in Africa from January to March this coming Janu, January, um, of 2026.
And it's gonna be like two months of being in the moment because that's what it's like for me when I'm there, you know? You might have to deal with some of the day-to-day things, you know, but. There's just so much going on around you at every moment that, um, you know, and the natural beauty. I'm not gonna be on safari the whole time, but I, I will a fair amount of the time.
And then I'm also gonna spend a, a bit of time, probably about a month of it in Cape Town. So, uh, um, but even that city just takes me to a different place. It's such a, a special place, you know.
Christine: Yeah. Well, I wanna talk a little bit, I think that something I, well, I hope something that travelers think about in connection with travel to Africa is the intersection of conservation and travel and community engagement. Um, I wanted to talk to you, you know, with the time that you've been there, how do you, how do you blend those things together and maybe what have you learned about the intersection of conservation and travel through the years?
Karin: Well, I think it's always been connected, but I think it used to be a little bit, um, less connected. It used to be more of, um, and when you're talking about conservation, I'm thinking about conservation and sustainability and all, all of the, those elements, um, used to be that some lodges do, did it really well and. Some didn't even think about that, you know? Um, as, as far as how were they building the lodge in a way that, um, was using the natural resources well, um, how were they working with the local communities around them and making them part of it versus sort of building something in a, in the middle of an area where local people were in that and those local people had no benefit from tourism or the lodge.
Um, and all of that relates to conservation because there's so many people in Africa, and it's not just swaths of open wild land, you know? Um, or at least there's less and less of that of course. And so if you build something and it's not incorporating the local people. In the benefits from the tourism, then they have less of a reason to focus on taking care of the wildlife and the conservation aspect.
Um, if, if people are focused on feeding their families and which, which everybody is, and having a livelihood and tourism is in the way of that versus helping that, then wildlife becomes a detriment versus, you know, something that's actually providing a benefit. So that's where we see human wildlife conflict issues, where, where wildlife, um, elephants are going in and, um, raid crops or predators are coming in and killing livestock.
Um, if you've got. People right next to wildlife areas. And more and more we do, and we're gonna have more and more people around it because population is going up not down. So, um, so the lodges more and more, um, as opposed to just picking out, you know, five real stars who are doing it Well, I, there's so many incredible, um, lodge partners, and when I say lodges, I mean people who have decided to run a safari camper lodge.
And they might have just that one lodge, or they could have a group of lodges. But more and more that is just becoming part of the story. There's so many inspiring people who are doing this incredible work. And so by working with local communities, which so many lodges from Kenya to. Zimbabwe, Botswana all around are working with the local communities and either making them partners or stakeholders in those lodges or projects or, um, using the conservancy fees and sharing that or actually leasing land from local, um, tribal people.
Um, the monies are going to the local people and so they are, they have a stake in protecting wildlife. And if wildlife, you know, if an elephant, um, is, is causing trouble, you know, I just learned recently, um, from. I know we're gonna talk about podcasts that I do later. Um, but I just learned about this elephant corridor that has been built, you know, through Kenya and it's just getting more and more connected.
And they're basically building this corridor that's bypassing farms, but allowing elephants to move through bigger and bigger areas. 'cause they needed that. need the ability to, to move and eat and, but not eating farmers crops is the key, right? And, um, and so the monies from, um, the conservancy fees, which is where our tourism dollars are going, um, just helps conservation so. I am just really focused on making sure that clients are going to these places, that I'm supporting, these places, that, um, I can find a way to amplify the voices of these, um, incredible projects that are, that are supporting conservation and local communities. If hopefully that answers the question.
Christine: I, think that's great.
Um, as you were talking about that, I, I was just kind of, imagining one of those first times that I was in Africa and I, I don't know how this compares to other places, but just thinking in the US and their, that families and communities live in national parks and protected areas and so that was something that I thought, uh, was interesting or are near them.
Where, where I grew up, you wouldn't see people, like, you wouldn't see people right next to where you would see grizzly bears and mountain lions. Like they're not really the places that are same, of course. Much like you were saying, the territories are encroach, encroaching and overlapping, and now you are seeing animals where you hadn't seen them before and humans where you hadn't seen them before.
But I was so surprised to just see near these. Animals and that they basically coexisted in my mind, I guess, you know, I'm, I grew up going to zoos and so I think, I thought there was this delineation between these great animals that you see in Africa. And so like realizing, you know, that that's a part of their daily life.
And then also realizing, 'cause again, we only see these animals as like these creatures that we want to see. Right? That,
Karin: These treasures.
Christine: special and it's a unique experience. It's not a part of our daily life. We don't, we don't see any of the nuisance or the struggles that are associated with them. And so that was something that I feel like was so important about witnessing in Africa because.
You know, it, it just allow, it gave me a greater understanding and for some of these topics, I, I would've never been able to understand if I hadn't seen it in person. So this is one of those moments where I think that travel allows us to even support one another in conservation efforts and community efforts.
Once you've seen it, then you can relate to the conversation and support it versus being so disconnected from the way of life that people are experiencing.
Karin: Yeah. Yeah. The connection that I've made recently to my life in Los Angeles, which is a, you know, a big city, but we do have, um. Wilder areas within our city less, um, I had that much less in New York City. You know, we had Central Park, but we, it was, it didn't feel like we were surrounded by, uh, the wilderness.
Whereas here in, in California, we've got mountains just going right through our city and we have coyotes, you know, that come down from the hills right onto the middle of city streets and will kill our dogs and our cats. And, um, I think we really understand. I mean, there's so many conversations between myself and my neighbors about, you know.
Protecting our, our animals, our, you know, our pets from, from coyotes. And it's like, I get it. You know? Do we see our coyotes, the, the villains or you know, what's happened? We've encroached on their area, they're, you know, and we have droughts and they come down and they're, you know, they're looking for food.
Christine: Yeah, I think it, it's relatable when you can kind of, I guess, take these travel experiences and bring them into your own life or try to, to figure out what other people are experiencing so you can have those conversations in a way that can create action with some sense of empathy and curiosity.
And so, yeah, I, I think that that's, people often say, you know, how does traveling instigate conservation or protection of areas you've traveled to? And I just think that's part of it is you have that understanding, but then you also have this kind of, not a sense of ownership, that's not the right word, but like, you do feel more connected and so you.
You just become kind of an, an activist in your own right for the places that you've loved and experienced through your travels. Um, I know that you, you know, you were just mentioning your podcast and we are kind of talking about some of these themes, like over tourism and talking about, um, you know, wildlife conflict and climate crisis.
And there's all these things that when we travel, we're experiencing whether we know it or not. Um, but there are often things that can be really difficult to talk about in travel. Again, it's kind of like, how uncomfortable do your guests want to be on the experience, you know, how deep do they wanna go?
Um, but they are experiencing it. And I'll just say I, two summers ago now, I think, um, I traveled for an extended period of time with my daughters and. I felt like it was a tour of the climate crisis as we were traveling because we experienced like the hottest day of, you know, ever recorded in Paris. And then also we were rec, we were experiencing like the highest volume of tourists ever to be in Barcelona, inclu, and the hottest day.
And it was like I was seeing all of these things we talk about happen and experiencing them, you know, in person and like trying to process, trying to be there, but then also feeling guilty because I'm like a part of the problem. And it was such a challenging time because I was having all these internal conversations, processing, like witnessing forest fires, listening, witnessing, you know, just all of these things that are like the bullet points in some report.
I was seeing them. Happen. So I know for you, this is something that came up and you started noticing the people in your community who were really addressing these issues. So you launched your podcast series, um, safari Chi, change Makers to really dive into these issues, give a place for these conversations.
Um, why was this important for you to do this?
Karin: Well, I. I just think that it's not necessarily out there. There's a lot of, um, you know, there's a lot of nature podcasts. There are some things out there. Um, you know, we've got incredible television content showing beautiful, um, nature and wildlife shows. But to talk about the stories behind, um, safari, you know, um, and really the people who are doing all of this, I'm just so inspired by these people that I wanna share it.
Um, I had been asked to be a speaker at a conference and I decided to, and they wanted me to shine the light on kind of hidden gems, less travel places. And I decided that I wanted to just do clips. From these con some conversations and put them into this presentation that I did. And after the conference, a lot of people had listened to me speak, said, I'd love to hear that whole conversation.
You just had those clips, you know? And I was like, yeah, well, I can tell you those conversations were incredible. You know, I could only put some short clips in, but the actual whole conversation that I had was, was amazing. So I said like, I, I could share these on YouTube. And then I was like, oh, is that, is that what a podcast is?
You know? And um, you know, and then I started to do a little more looking into it, and I saw that some podcasts do have a video element. I think yours does. Um, you know, at least you can listen to it, but you can also, um, watch it. Um, so. I definitely, I produced those three different interviews that I did for that conference, and then I just wanted to keep doing it, you know?
Um, and then I have an unending sort of list of, of potential guests because I know so many incredible people in Africa who, it just, it, it will never end because I think we're going to only release episodes, you know, maybe twice a month. Um, that's how we're doing it now, and that's really what, so that's just 24 people a year, and I have so many people with incredible stories, you know.
Um, and then we decided, uh, to include film clips from the work that these people do in there as well, so we're not just talking. We're also. Showing bit of what people are doing. So it, it's almost a little more of a documentary series or a video series, as you mentioned. Um, it's not just us chatting. Um, and I'm lucky to be able to do that because, um, my partner in life, my husband has the background in, um, radio, television, film, and has a studio and is able to add that, that element to it.
So, um, my hat's off to him. It, it, it's, you know, I have the connections, but he's got that skill to be able to bring it to that level. So, um, anyway, it's just every time I get off of one of the, um, interviews, I'm so inspired by the work that these people do. I just feel like, gosh, you know what? These people.
Every single day live this life, you know? And so people get like a little glimpse into, you know, kind of that magic, um, of the people who are, are in the safari world, you know? Um, so we've got some really exciting stories, um, that I'm working on. Uh, for example, um, trackers, I don't know if you know what the, the who the trackers are.
They mostly use trackers in South Africa. Um, not as much in, in East Africa, but some safari lodges and camps in East Africa do as well. And the tracker and the professional safari guide have a relationship. Um, the trackers are typically shung gun and they've grown up in the bush. And they just know, like from walking the bush as children and they grow up and they, um, have decided on this profession as a safari tracker.
They work with the guide and they get off the vehicle at times and they are able to read this tiniest little signs from, you know, a broken twig, um, footprints and, you know, and oftentimes clients will get out of the vehicle with the guide and the tracker and the tracker will explain. Um, sometimes, um, uh, the guide is explaining what the tracker's saying because sometimes the tracker's talking in, in Sangha to the guide, it's kind of this hidden craft that I haven't seen anyone focus on.
So I'm gonna do a whole episode on trackers. Um. And just who they are and what that's all about. Um, and it was inspired because, um, uh, an incredible lodge owner, um, uh, has decided to name one of her brand new safari lodges, uh, after this very famous master tracker who passed away. And he was my tracker, oh, the first time I stayed at her lodge over 20 something years ago.
Um, so I'm bringing that safari guide who was, who was worked together with, with Wilson, um, Messiah. And, um, we're gonna talk about him and his, his story, but talk about trackers, you know, so again, that shining light on the people and those inspiring stories behind safaris, which I think will also interest not just us in the industry, but people.
Who are not in the industry. I've had friends listen to the podcast recently who are not in our industry, and they're like, wow, this is so incredible, Karin. I'm like, oh, good, good. You it's not just resonating with us in the, in the industry, it's also resonating with, with just, um, non non-industry, non-travel people,
Christine: you know
Yeah, I, I think it's really important, and I love that you're speaking with people, you know, in all different aspects of the industry. That's something I've really tried to do as well, is like, it's from the outside. If you're not in, in the industry, it's not always obvious how many people make any experience happen.
And so when you're talking to someone like a tracker like that, that might not be someone who someone's maybe actively aware of in their travel experience, but their experience is incredibly enhanced by them being a part of the industry. And I think, you know, those are the voices. It's particularly important to amplify.
And they're the ones who. Are really helping us to tell the story of a place as we're traveling. And, um, I think that was one of the things that you and I as we were kind of, you know, waxing poetic about how much we love podcasting is this overlap of storytelling and trip design and podcasting, because it's all about connection and understanding and storytelling.
And it's like, just another way we can do it and it can be a little more targeted because you can say, okay, I'm, I'm speaking to this person and highlighting this voice right now so that they, they don't fall into the shadows within this greater story.
Karin: Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that's part of, you know, what I'm, I'm trying to do. And I think also, um, I think the whole, uh, conservation and, um, sustainability over the last 10 years, it's always been like, um. A little, um, extra, extra line on people's website, like click here to read about our conservation e efforts or our, you know, corporate responsibility statement.
And I do feel that clients don't necessarily come and say, it's very important to me that you pick a company that has a strong, uh, corporate responsibility, uh, policy. I don't think they come to us with that. I mean, Africa is still so exciting and new and, and unknown to clients that I think they're more focused just on when am I supposed to go?
Where should I go? You know, where should we stay? How long? You know? And, and, and those elements. But I know what I'm doing for them behind the scenes. I know what the experience is gonna be when they get there. I know that they're gonna have that experience with the trackers or that, you know, I I, I have another interview that we're producing on, um, period poverty, and I hadn't heard that term myself, you know?
Um, and it, it's all about the work that this, um, lodge group is doing behind the scenes, providing, um, reusable menstrual products to young women in the schools in Tanzania so that they don't have to miss school and drop out of school. You know, and it's, it's a women's empowerment program at the end of the day.
And they also do, uh, women guide training and, you know, clients. Don't even have to necessarily read that corporate corporate responsibility statement. They might not even know, they may not even go to see that project when they're there, but they can, if they want to, um, maybe from watching the podcast, it'll, you know, they'll, they'll say, wow, you know, I'm traveling with my teenage kids.
I'd love for them to understand more about this. You know, that taking for granted that we all have access at our local, you know, pharmacy to go pick up our, our, you know, menstrual products. And these young women, this could keep them outta school, but even if they don't, just going on safari and putting the money into those lodges is supporting the project.
So you don't have to read the corporate responsibility statement. You can, but you don't have to. But just being in supporting lodges and going on Safari supports all of this.
Christine: Yeah, I mean I, that's one of the things I, I love for sure about the industry and as more businesses are kind of using those values to be able to. Support what they believe in. And like you said, it can be something that's very transparent or it can be something that's just built into what you're creating.
Either way, the impact is there. But I also love that when we invite travelers into this, you know, it might not be something they knew was important to them, or it might be a new topic or subject, but the thing I love is that then the next time they travel, they might know to ask the question and be like, you know, I actually really love meeting with women's social impact projects when I travel.
Is that something I can do with you? Like they might carry that forward because of something they learned about with you. And so I, I think that's for me. Particularly this because you know how much I geek about, geek out about this particular topic. Um, like that makes me really excited 'cause that actually is shifting a needle.
And if we can have educated customers who do bekin to ask about this, then that's, we can even put more and more of this into the products that we're designing because it, it not only supports the projects, but it, it's gonna continue to build those, those deeper connections on a more human level.
Karin: Yeah,
And it takes us away from that kind of voyeuristic kind of people, uh, experience where you, you know, you go, you watch someone do a dance and you leave, you know, um, which I also. Really, um, it's really important to me to not have clients, um, have those kinds of experiences. I feel like, not, not that watching people do a a dance is, is is the problem.
That's not the problem. But I think when it's just very one sided and there's no communication, um, and it's, or it's really transactional versus some sort of like connection. Uh, the, the other thing is I think some of these lodge lodges, especially smaller camps and lodges, um, are able to build a bridge too, where they may, um, take clients to.
Um, experience something with local community and then be able to come back and talk with them about it or before they go help bridge, uh, the questions that people would have, you know, so that they're more comfortable. Um, and then the other thing I also love doing is finding out what someone's interested in.
Again, if they have teenagers, can we connect them to something like I just mentioned? Or if they're a chef, could we go and like, do some sort of cooking or foraging experience? You know, people say, oh, I know I'm making this really complicated for you. And, uh, it's like, no, that's what I like. The more complicated it is, the more work I have to kind of do to source it and make the experience something special.
And that's what keeps it fun. If I was just selling the same thing every day, like. I, I would probably get kind of bored of it.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. You kind of, you get to keep that mindset of curiosity and openness and then also you are, you are, um, getting to spread the impact of tourism to, to new partners. Because if someone is asking something for something new, then you know, your ripple kind of goes out as you bring new partners into the fold and the conversation.
So I think that's really great. And um, and you mentioned too, like coming back and having conversations. I think that's something that. Maybe we haven't talked a lot about as an industry, but I think that's such an important part, is helping travelers process what they're experiencing. I think especially in Africa, they're, it's just depending on where they're coming from as a traveler, it's often so different than our own experiences.
Um, again, kind of going back to my experiences that I had, you know, it, it would've been really helpful maybe for someone to curate a little bit of discussion. Not that this has to be super academic and we don't people feel like, you know, they're getting things wrong, but it, it does sometimes take a little bit to process it.
And, um, I was thinking of, um, uh, Dr. Annu, Tara Naths book, um, my, the, um, oh my gosh, now it just left my mind. It's Mindful Travel in an Unequal World is the, um. Subtitle. Um, but she, she really helps people to have those conversations because sometimes like that inequity that you recognize or that discomfort that you recognize and you don't even know it's inequity that you witnessed, that's making you feel uncomfortable.
Like, we need to be able to talk about those things as travelers because that's where a lot of the inherent value of the experience comes from. So I love that you mentioned that being like one way that you might engage travelers in during their travel experience.
Karin: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah
Experience. Um, well, I wanted to hear from you, I know you mentioned a little bit of the podcast and some of the stories, but what is one of your maybe favorite interviews or one that surprised you the most when you were able to spend a little bit more time with them?
Karin: Oh gosh. It's hard to pick between these different ones I've done so far. Um. 'cause everything I've learned so much. Um, well, again, it's one that's not out yet. Um, so these are ones to look forward to all of the ones that I've talked about, except for the one about the elephant corridors. That one's the one that's called, um, saving Rhinos before Breakfast.
And that's with, um, um, call Callum and Sophie McFarland, um, up in Lewa and Kenya. So that's a really, really cool one. They're such a great couple and you really get to feel what it's like to like people who, when they take their kids to school, you know, might pass lions on the way to school and, and, and it just, Ima, you know, and they say, I know this is our life.
It's so crazy. You know, and they realize that they're living kind of a unique life because I think they spend a lot of time with. Um, tourists who are not, who don't have that life. So I think they have that self-reflection to know that their life is unique. So I love that one. So that one's already out, but another one that I just did, um, which we're producing is, um, with, um, some winemakers with, um, Emma and Jeremy Borg and then Lynn Barry who does the artwork for their wine label.
And then, um, a conservationist who is doing the work on, um, wild dog research in Zimbabwe, who is very connected to their wine, uh, label. So their wine label is called Painted Wolf Wines. And. The reason that they chose painted Wolves, and I'm not gonna give everything away that they talk about in the podcast, 'cause I'd love for you to listen to it when it comes out.
But, um, the reason they picked painted Wolves is because they felt that, you know, um, elephants and lion already get a lot of attention and people don't know as much about pen painted wolves or paint or wild dogs. Um, as they're also called, people might think that they're wolves or hyenas or coyotes or something, but they don't even know, you know, what they are.
So this podcast goes into why Emma and Jeremy decided to name their wine company, painted Wolf Wines, and then also into Jeremy, the winemaker and his, his craft, and that you can go and visit this winery in Parl, which is just outside of Cape Town. And we talked to the artist who's doing this incredible art, not just on wine labels.
She's an incredible prolific wildlife artist in Zimbabwe. And we talked to, um, this conservationist who's in charge of wild dog research, and we learn so much about wild dogs and wine and art, you know, and it's just like, again. It, the intersection of all of those things. And the fact too, that on a safari you can ex go and experience their wines, go on safari, see wild dogs as well as all of the rest of the wildlife that's out there.
Um, and the art element in Africa, which is a whole nother element, you know, and, and just looking at Lin Barry's paintings and work, oh my God, it's so beautiful. Um, so I love that story. Can't wait to get it out there. And I think we are planning all of us, that group of four people who said that I was now part of their pack,
is a pack of, of wild dogs, um, we're gonna, uh, design a trip.
In 2027 that incorporates all those elements with those people that I'm gonna put together. So my work between the podcast and Artisans of Safari, it's just sort of like, it's almost like becoming one thing all part of, because also anybody that I'm talking to in the podcast pretty much are people that I work with for clients that, or that I could have clients connected to.
You know, so they're kind of meeting those people and they could be like, well, I wanna go on that with, I wanna go to their place. Okay, we can do that, you
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. I love that extension. I definitely find that too, where I'm meeting people here and then I'm like, oh my gosh. Well, I definitely want to, you know, lead a trip in that area with the, this focus that you have that's so aligned with my values. And so yeah, you start, you start kind of like just. Building one thing into the other and then one thing back into the other, and they're,
Karin: they very
Christine: are very interconnected.
Karin: Plus, you know, I mean, you know, that those people, like, as far as for clients to know that they're gonna be well taken care of, I mean, they know that, you know that first of all, they get to see who these people are. I mean, how often, I mean, if you go to a, I'll just say a, a big flag hotel, are you gonna know who those people are that are gonna take care of you, you know?
Here, you're like, oh, we're, I'm gonna be staying there with those people,
Christine: you know
Karin: 'cause so many of these places do have, um, lodge owners that are also management. Not, not only, but, but, um, so you're, you know, that your clients are gonna be really well taken care of. And that if, and that's, that's like key for me,
Christine: Yeah, and I think it's something, you know, o often for us as travel professionals traveling, we have that connection with people when we travel. It's like my kids, they're, it's so funny for them. They're like, you know, everywhere we go we're, we're meeting like a friend of yours everywhere we go. And I was like, well, yeah, I mean that's unique.
But they're like, does everybody travel? I'm like, no. This is a different way of traveling built, you know, with all these relationships over the years. But they have this sense of travel is very like welcoming and that it is possible to know someone everywhere you go. And you know, with what you're saying, it almost bridges that for travelers if they're listening to the podcast and like they arrive with a connection to someone before they even get there.
I think it's a very different. It's a lot more intimate travel experience. Like you, you feel like you belong there. It, it starts to break down some of that one way, um, extractive travel experience because you're coming in with a sense of, um, deeper connection to a place that you're going.
Karin: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Christine: Um, well, before we wrap up our conversation, I have a few of our rapid fire or rapid fire ish questions to end the conversation, so we'll jump into those. Um, the first one, Karin, is what are you reading right now?
Karin: Oh, I am reading, um, culpability, um, for my book group. Um, although I skipped ahead to, I just finished The Art Thief, which is really good. Oh my gosh. Such a good book. Um, about a, one of the most prolific, uh, art thieves ever in Europe back in the nineties. Um, and he was stealing just for his own, uh.
Pleasure. He wasn't selling the art. Um, billions of dollars of art stolen. So that was very interesting. And then culpability is about ai, um, basically ai, um, in our, in our world. And it's about a family, um, in an AI driven car that has a car crash.
Christine: Hmm. Interesting.
Karin: Totally different. Not having anything to do with Africa right now,
Christine: yeah, that's okay. I I, I think interesting how those reads actually end up sparking, um. Another way of thinking about experiences as well. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?
Karin: Huh. Um, a, well, a thing in my backpack is a tennis ball, um, because I can put it behind my back and just mm-hmm. Get the kinks out on a long trip. And also in, you know, it's, it's good even if you're laying in bed and fear getting sore and stuff, and it can work those things out. Just a little tennis ball.
Christine: Thank you. I have a cork ball similar that I travel with, so there is a lot of value there. Um, to me sojourning means to travel somewhere as if you live there with a deep respect. Um, where is someplace you would still love to Sojo?
Karin: Oh, that I haven't been, um, gosh, I still have, I've never been to Tahiti. Um, so my husband and I would like to go there. Um, and I still have some places in Africa that I haven't been to. So I'm, um, we've dipped into Ethiopia, but I'd like to do way more there.
Christine: Um
Karin: yeah.
Christine: Um, what is something you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been
Karin: um, I would say ado, which you can sometimes get now, which is like, um, ice cream with like this amazing espresso poured over it. And, um, it just immediately brings me to Italy where I did get to spend a lot of time as a, as a kid. 'cause my uncle, um, was doing research in, in Florence. Um, so we spent time there with my cousin and I.
Christine: Yeah, my kids would definitely tell you that is one of my top favorite treats, so I love that. Uh, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?
Karin: my mom, my mom, she was from, yeah, she was from, um, Zurich, Switzerland and, you know, took us as kids traveling mostly in Switzerland to visit family, but all over the place. And, um, yeah, that's what, just put it in my, yeah, that's, it's like deep within there.
Yeah
Christine: Um, if you could share an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
Karin: Ooh, Jane Goodall. Plus I'd love to interview her for my podcast.
Christine: Oh my
too.
karin-jones_1_09-23-2025_100857: I know. We can work on it.
Yes
Christine: Yeah, that be great. Uh, yeah, anyone listening who has that connection, that would be great. We would appreciate it. Um, okay, last question. Uh, as you know, soul of Travel is a space for recognizing women in celebrating them in the tourism industry. Who is someone that you would like to celebrate today?
karin-jones_1_09-23-2025_100857: Uh, ah, that's a good one. Um, someone in tourism,
gosh, I'm thinking back to, to. Jill spells that woman that I met when, you know, I was just starting out and she just really inspired me. I remember her, you know, um, go getting out of the vehicle and getting my camera out of the back of the vehicle on my, like first day in Africa. And, and she, I thought, are you getting out of the vehicle?
Are, do you have a gun? And she, she said, no, no, no. And, and, and she went and got my big Nikon camera that I actually am sitting over there. I don't use it anymore, but I still have it. And um, she was just like a real, she was like the real deal, you know? She had a fly tying business. She worked in the safari business.
She was also a horse rider. Um, you know, and she had made her life in Africa and, and I think. Um, it inspired me.
Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much for sh, for sharing. Um, and thank you for being here and sharing about your journey and your podcast, and I hope that people take time to listen. I really love it and have already, like, I want to figure out how to get my dad to watch it on YouTube, which I'm not sure how that happens for him, but he would really enjoy it.
So I'm going to navigate that technology for him. Um, but yeah, such great stories and I, I really appreciate it.
Karin: I have loved this and I am hoping that you and I get to meet really soon in person. I know it will happen at one of the upcoming events that we both tend to make our way to. So
Christine: Yeah.
I would love that.
that.
Yeah. Thank you.
You can find me on Facebook at Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community, or follow me on Instagram either @lotussojourns or @souloftravelpodcast. Stay up to date by joining the Lotus Sojourns mailing list. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hearing your story.