Episode 250 - Greta Matos, Quila Quina Consulting & CuraKuda
In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Greta Matos.
Greta is deeply committed to a life of intentional relationship with Earth, Horse and Soul. With her family and herd, she composes a life in the heart of Patagonia, where she is devoted to soulful relationship with human and non-human kin. Within her organization CuraKuda, she nurtures spaces where the wild essence of the horse, human and earth can encounter their shared language. Working mostly with herds at liberty, her work deepens the natural capacity to flow and evolve authentically with all that exists within the unknown. Greta’s approach integrates a lifetime of learning from and relating with horses and our shared earth body - and weaves together tools, techniques and approaches that have been gathered and cultivated from a diverse range of teachers. In all aspects of her work, from the field to the boardroom, she nurtures the inner transformation of individuals and collectives as they embody a more responsive, creative, and collaborative relationship with Earth, ancestors, one another and future generations. Greta is a writer, a mother, a soul friend and a dedicated spirit.
Reconnecting with Roots and Purpose
Greta’s story begins on a Pennsylvania farm, “roaming and relating with the earth and, and horses and lots of animals and spending all of my time outside.” That rootedness in the natural world was her original dream for adulthood, but her path led into corporate executive leadership in global supply chains. Like so many Soul of Travel listeners and guests, we hear from Greta a very familiar story: a misalignment led to an incredible discovery that the field of travel, ways of connecting, and following our heart-centered knowing would lead to a career shift.
For Greta, this meant leaving her corporate world, her corporate identity, and all the stressors that came along with it in favor of a move to Chile, and specifically, the otherworldly landscapes of Patagonia. Here, Greta underwent a profound reorientation. She speaks of “peeling away” old layers, describing how a return to writing and a reconnection with horses, which she calls her her “greatest love,” allowed her to design her days, her work, and her impact.
Greta and Christine share that even misalignment or discomfort is a part of our path, not necessarily that we have strayed from it. “We are always on our path.…I literally cannot be anywhere else but on my path,” shares Christine. “It's just that I wanted more clarity in my direction, but I'm on my path.”
Radical Vulnerability as the Foundation of Mindful Leadership
Traditional conceptions of leadership often ask us to perform rather than to be. Greta and Christine both interrogate what it means to bring being “people-y” back into professional spaces that historically prize mind over heart, and surface over soul.
“If you are in a leadership position, you have an incredible opportunity to embody much deeper levels of vulnerability, because you are in a position where that can be modeled. And that can will an organization.”
When being vulnerable in a space or role that’s not set up to support that vulnerability and the “messy process of integration,” real harm can be done to the one sharing. The environment must be established and nurtured to help everyone be mindful and heartful in full, complete identities.
Greta also shares how her work integrates heart-based practices and draws wisdom from her lifelong relationship with horses — a clear metaphor for authentic, embodied presence in business.
The lessons she’s learned working with horses are especially instructive for leaders: “With horses, like I work with the horses energetically and at liberty. They don't have any ropes or anything. I'm not controlling them in a conventional way.…letting people know that the horse can feel their heartbeat and can feel their blood flowing…simply planting that seed, it changes everything.…We have these subtle ways that we can invite one another to feel actually how sensitive we are and how sensitive this entire earth body and beings and experience is and, and just be with that, and then let that change things.”
For all this to truly take hold, a deeper level of integration is demanded—not just from individual leaders but from organizational culture.
Courageously Navigating the Unknown to Create Change
Their soulful conversation circles back to the profound courage required to venture into uncharted territory, both within ourselves and within our organizations.
It’s uncomfortable, it’s complex, and ultimately, it’s well worth it. For those in the travel and tourism space, perhaps that journey is even more aligned with the spirit of adventure so many people pursue. That call to courageous, mindful change will always be both a challenge and a comfort.
Greta reminds us: “We will have to recognize that it will take some support to get people there, even if they really want to get there. And then there's a lot of people that won't. And so there's this progressive journey.”
Business, travel, and leadership at their most powerful are not about perfect plans or flawless execution. They are about finding ways to be fully human in a journey that never provides certainty, but offers rich, genuine growth for ourselves, our communities, and our world.
“We are in this vast space that’s inviting us to really acknowledge the power that comes with vulnerability, and the courage that is required.”
Soul of Travel Episode 250 At a Glance
In This Episode, Christine and Greta Matos discuss:
Reconnecting with roots and purpose as the compass for personal and professional growth
Embracing joy, vulnerability, and authenticity as the foundation of mindful leadership
Allowing business to be “fully human” by integrating heart, compassion, and lived experience
Courageously navigating the unknown to create change through navigating the unknown – even when the path is unclear
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To discuss advertising or sponsoring an episode, reach out to Christine at souloftravelpodcast@gmail.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
Visit CuraKuda to explore Greta’s purpose-guided organization cultivating relational, restorative and transformational experiences that nurture connection and cultivate resilience at www.curakuda.com.
Learn more about Greta and her work at https://quilaquina.com/.
Connect with Greta on your favorite social media network! Greta’s Instagram / CuraKuda Instagram
Support Fundación Llancalil in Southern Chile at https://fundacionllancalil.org/.
Related UN Sustainable Development Goals
Sustainable Development Goal #3: Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages.
Sustainable Development Goal #4: Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #5: Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls.
Sustainable Development Goal #8: Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all.
Sustainable Development Goal #12: Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns.
Sustainable Development Goal #15: Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss.
Sustainable Development Goal #17: Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the Global Partnership for Sustainable Development.
About the Soul Of Travel Podcast
Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of people making a positive impact in the tourism industry. In each episode, you’ll hear the stories of women who are industry professionals, seasoned travelers, and community leaders. Our expert guests represent social impact organizations, adventure-based community organizations, travel photography and videography, and entrepreneurs who know that travel is an opportunity for personal awareness and a vehicle for global change.
Join us to become a more educated and intentional traveler as you learn about new destinations, sustainable and regenerative travel, and community-based tourism. Industry professionals and those curious about a career in travel will also find value and purpose in our conversations.
We are thought leaders, action-takers, and heart-centered change-makers who inspire and create community. Join host Christine Winebrenner Irick for these soulful conversations with our global community of travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Ceylan Rowe (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.
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Monthly Soul Circles: Gatherings to Begin This Month!
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Soul of Travel Episode 250 Transcript
Key Words: women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship
Christine: welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I am your host, Christine, and I am very excited and looking forward to this conversation. Um, my guest today is Greta Matos, and we met about a year ago in Panama at an a TTA event and had a really beautiful conversation and just decided that I wanted to bring that here to the podcast to share with you all.
And for me, this is the perfect day for it because our conversation was like old friends quickly, like diving into these beautiful conversations. And today as I was trying to write our outline, my brain just kept being like, no outline. I don't wanna organize this. Let's just chat. So, um, that's where we're arriving.
But uh, welcome to the podcast, g. I'm so happy to have you here.
Greta: Thank you, Christina. I'm so excited to be here and also so excited actually, that your brain interrupted any kind of agenda because. Emergence is the way life is guided here, and so I love it. So I'm so excited to get to spend this time with you and yeah, have this conversation.
Christine: It felt very intentional as that was happening. 'cause I was like, I feel like this is what she would prefer anyway, so this is the universe just kind of putting up full stop to me trying to think that I'm in control of something. So that was, that was just perfect, I think. Um, well, as we begin our conversation, I'd actually love to just turn it over to you and give you a minute to introduce yourself to our listeners.
I know that you kind of put your workout into the world in a lot of different ways and I loved, I was reading on your LinkedIn site and it reminded me of, um, kind of this interview, or not interview technique, but uh, like networking technique where when someone asks you. What you do, you don't respond with like, I'm the director of sales at x, Y, Z Co.
You're like, like for instance, mine would be, I work to empower and amplify the work of women around the world. And I do this through my podcast and my volunteering and my tour company and like the, what I do is more important than the how I do it. And I was, as I was reading your bio and preparing, I was like, aha, I see the what over the how. And so anyway, I will let you introduce yourself.
Greta: Lovely. Well, and I love that it presents that way because there was a time in my life when I had one identity that was. My primary identity and it was all around my work in the conventional way that we would describe that. And so it took time and it took a lot of cliff jumping to, um, and peeling away of a lot of those layers to get to a point where I could be really clear of, oh yeah, there's a whole lot of parts of me that are arriving in the world for.
All the same reasons. And so how does it all wanna weave together? So yeah, I originally, I was born in Pennsylvania on a farm. I grew up, um, roaming and relating with the earth and, and horses and lots of animals and spending all of my time outside and. I'd always envisioned that would be my life. And then life had other ideas and plans, and I also realized that we're all multifaceted humans that don't always know exactly what the path will look like.
And so from there, I actually went into business, um, working in global supply chains, traveling all over the world as a corporate executive, and yet always also. Feeling that sense of, of missing the amount of time that I had spent outside just being outside, doing anything outside. And, um, after too many years of factories and hotels and flights and everything.
That was keeping me, um, in the outdoors only on the weekends or in the space in between my days as opposed to throughout my day. I decided, uh, it was time to shift that, which is what brought me to Chile. So Chile has been home, Patagonia for the last 11 years, just arriving in 11 years, and through the time of living here, there's been this vast.
Kind of reorienting of life as as we kind of opened and began. And so I was always a writer. My writing really. Came forth in a, in a different way, in a more public way. I reconnected with the horses and the horses reconnected with me, and we began to conspire and do alchemy and have grand adventures and travel long journeys across, across territories that neither of us had been through.
Uh, and that emerged into also parts of my work where I do coaching with horses and, and experiential learning with them. And also deep in my work in working with other entrepreneurs, other particularly women entrepreneurs in nurturing and cultivating businesses that are resilient, that are connected to.
The soul passion and aspects of oneself that got you interested in getting into business in the first place, and tending to the roots of these women in the way in which they can grow their ventures without severing those roots, if that makes any sense.
Christine: Yeah, I
mean for me, obviously I'm like, yes, yes, yes. But you know, I, I think that is so important because I think, kind of like what you were saying, sometimes that gets lost in, in our shuffle and in our experience and we actually do forget the roots. And that was kind of where Soul of Travel came from for me too, is having some of those conversations where like through the process of the conversation, people would see that, they would find those roots again,
Greta: Mm.
Christine: I could see how afterward it would shift. their work was showing up in the world because they would start talking about it differently from reorienting to those roots.
So I, I think, um, it's so, it's such an important and valuable and seemingly simple, but not always. So thing about our businesses.
Greta: Yes, absolutely. And because you. When you're following that thread, that joy and that that innate passion for what you're building from the beginning, it's easy to feel as though it's always there and it is, but there's also so much that's involved in actually growing a business, you know, and being in business and.
And evolving with it as it evolves, that it's also easy to, to become distanced from it and, and to not be attuned to it as often as supports it in, its guiding you in that continuing guidance, you know.
Christine: Yeah, I think I'll, I'll just share some of this, 'cause this is literally happening in like real time for me is this process of trying to understand like, and having months of feeling a little bit of dissonance and out of alignment and being like, I'm pushing really hard and that pushing doesn't feel good,
and that pushing is getting in the way of me doing what I want to do because I'm not doing anything.
Because whatever I'm, I'm not facing, I guess is just like trying to show up and show up. And then all of a sudden the other day I was like, Hmm, you know, what do I love about my work? What, what simple elements make me feel joyful? Like. Can I pile those all together in a way that it makes something different?
And you know, I was thinking, and, and you'll kind of know this 'cause we have some similar circles, but like in adventure travel especially, we have this really unique opportunity to gather with our colleagues and do incredible things like go camping in Patagonia, you know,
and not everybody gets to do that.
And I'm like, I don't wanna give that up because
that's incredible. Like that's literally the best part of my work. And not only that is like when we're gathered together in that space where we kind of come most alive because we love the nature and outdoors, then we're also having these powerful conversations.
'cause we're hiking with these aligned heart and minded people. And I'm like, so I don't
wanna give that up either. That's great. And then I'm like, oh, I also really love supporting women and I love watching how tourism can change. The world and can evolve. And so then I'm like, okay, let's start putting these pieces together and what can this become?
And like, I'm just on the edge, I think, finally of putting those pieces together. And then that's really exciting because I'm kind of getting out from underneath the things that happen to me and starting to try to be the the designer of things moving forward.
Greta: mm Yes, you're, it's like what's coming to mind is it's like jumping in into the flow of the river as opposed to trying to tell the river where to go,
Christine: yeah,
yeah,
Greta: really much bigger task.
Christine: yeah. And I, yeah, so just all that to say is like, I feel like this is a moment where that's really happening in my life. And maybe for our listeners, that might be a resonant experience, like kind of hearing your journey and then. Even when we think we're on our path or as this great wisdom that was given to me is we are always on our path, which was such a, um, it shouldn't have been as big of as an aha moment as it was to me.
But I remember again, like this was probably 10 or 15 years ago, just struggling and fighting
and just being like, I just show me my path.
And like, this was one of those magic moments from the universe where I just saw like glittering and light and heard my grandma's voice and she said, you're always on your path.
And I was just like, oh, well, duh. Like I can't, I literally cannot be anywhere else but on my path. It's just that I wanted more clarity in my direction, but I'm, but I'm on my path. So like, I think this is things that maybe would be super resonant when people are. Out of alignment and trying to come back to that thing that brings them joy and creates the impact they wanna create in the world.
Greta: Oh yes. That lands so deeply for me as I hear you, and, and I also, I mean, let's see, nine years ago was when the horses came back into my life. And again, I had, I was born with horses and they actually taught me what it felt like to love your work. Like to the point that it was, it never felt like work. So I had imagined my whole life would be working with the horses.
That was my entire, like, it didn't make any other, like nothing else would make sense when I was growing up. But as I started to tap into the equine industry and the actual economy around work with horses, it didn't resonate, and actually it was quite painful and I couldn't navigate that as a young woman, which is why I left it, even though it was my greatest love.
And when the horses came back and I realized I had, you know, much more maturity to know that I actually got to design my work in the way in which I wanted to. And I didn't have to abide by whatever the market said if it didn't resonate. You know, and I, I could actually work with the way my setting the terms could attract those that were in agreement with those terms, you know?
And. I had envisioned I could see everything so clearly, you know, in terms of a vision of the way it would unfold and the way the work would come together and the team and the place and everything. And I spent years, uh, seeking the land and doing the work, but very quietly, almost like womb work, you know?
Like it was very much, I had to do my work with them. They had to do their work on me and. At one point, I had to let it all go because I just knew that I couldn't make it happen. I wasn't meant to. It was the work was going to tell me how it wanted to be done through me with my participation, but it wasn't about my strategic vision being implemented in this linear way because that's not how the horses work anyway.
And so I was un uninterested in doing it that way. But it's also then. You've gotta surrender to the path continuously, potentially changing. And it's why are you on the path? It's okay. Like, you're always on the path and you, what you get to choose is how you're walking, you know? And
that's, that's, most of what you get to choose really at the end of the day.
Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Um, uh, so good. Well, the other thing that, as I was preparing too, I'm like, what, what are, what am I wanting to talk to you about? And this sentence is kind of funny, but it came into my mind and it said, how do we make professional places more peopley?
I was like, oh, that's very interesting. Um, because one of the things that you and I talked about when we, we were, we met a month or so ago was, you know, just.
Like how do we bring people into the structure of tourism and how do we, how do we be a person in our business and how do we recognize and honor that we are, in fact
people in businesses?
And you know, we were kind of talking about this idea that this level of burnout that maybe we see amongst our colleagues in the world of sustainability and this heart-centered leadership is because like, we're so deeply driven by those roots and that love and that passion, and we're trying to conform to a place that doesn't want to acknowledge those most human parts of ourselves.
And you know, one of these. The ways I was thinking about this recently is in leadership and you know, if you and I were picturing someone told us to picture a leader 10 years ago, we probably would not be picturing either you or I on this screen right now, like,
you know, one being women, two, you know, like maybe having like our hair wild and down and
not having makeup and not, you know, being very in a suit.
And like if we're gonna be a woman in leadership, we better look as manly as we can and, and we better not be emotional and we better not be passionate. And so like that's this idea of leadership that then really asks us not to be fully human as a
leader because you're leaving all of this. All of these pieces of you to the side, and not just as women, but you know men as well.
Like there's just this way that we have painted leadership
in our world. And so then when you're trying to create a business and you're trying to be that person, but then you feel this way in the background, you're at odds. Much like you said, you know, that's part of why you had to leave the work that you were doing.
And one of the things, and now I don't remember if you said it or I said it, but I just bolded it in our, my notes, was that business as usual requires mindlessness and heartlessness
because it's a very black and white place and it's a yes or no place. And it's like these quick decisions that seem like they only come from pie charts and if we want to change. How business looks and how tourism looks like. We have to recognize and bring the peoples
into our work because it's a really important thing to evolve, like the construct of business and like working to integrate those two things together I feel like is very much maybe where we're at and that's why there's so much dissonance in the world.
So now I just said a million things, but I feel like you probably have something to say back.
Greta: Oh, I love it. There's so many things buzzing as you, as you speak it and what comes up. So a few things come up for me and I smile because I think of, yeah. Where I was in terms of that leadership position in business 12 years ago versus now, and the fact that I still engage in my corporate work very differently.
And actually, yeah, 12 years ago I was doing so in, you know, the power suit, very, very. Composed for the audience, you know, and everything over prepared, you know, always over prepared. And now I literally facilitate, um, meetings with CEOs of very large corporations and I'm wearing a Buena and I'm sitting outside with mountains behind me, you know, without makeup and.
And the level of joy that I just feel because I am in my life with joy as my compass, it comes through in the work. It changes the environment, even though again, that's not even what it's about. I'm not there trying to do that, but in some ways. When we embody it, then we're giving, we give people permission to feel it themselves, and it does have this magical resonance response.
At least that's been my experience and I, I think that that piece, particularly the mindlessness, like it's all mind, but there's no heart, but that, that peace of. It's actually like first when we're in our heart and we bring that in, but we bring it in in a way that's open. So it's not even, it's not that heavy, like, oh, I care about this, so you need to care about it.
And instead it's this openness to relating through our hearts, you know, no matter what the work is, and no matter where the place is. And. I, I do work in human rights and corporate sustainability and social responsibility in businesses, and it's work that you would assume people are peopley, but it's incredible how much, even in that space, perhaps, especially in that space, the humanity has been removed from the room because.
It's very intense if people feel what we're working with, because the impacts are very real and they're very raw. And when I go into that space, I, I always now know how breathing slowing down. And taking deeper breaths and I've even like stopped meetings and just invited people to take a few breaths and we do or or, and I invite them to have meetings outside.
And literally I find like those are very subtle ways that we do reorient ourselves and resource one another. Without telling each other what to do, because I think that that's often one of the challenges is obviously we can each do our own work and we can each do our own care, but when we need to open the space and be in the space with others where we, you know, we don't know who's coming in or where they're coming from.
And so how do we create a threshold that they can cross over that's naturally going to orient them to be more connected with themselves and their whole humanness, you know? And with the horses, for me it was essential because again, there's a lot of. Historical, ancestral, unconscious trauma that's like woven into humans.
And then, and, and the story of needing to dominate in order to feel safe. And with horses, like I work with the horses energetically and at liberty. They don't have any ropes or anything. I'm not controlling them in a conventional way and. So you, but I have to support people to feel safe, you know, not using the conventional ways.
And what I've found is something as simple as first, letting people know that the horse can feel their heartbeat and can feel their blood flowing and can sense actually if even there's a tumor, if there's something blocking inside their body. When we're 400 feet away from them, you know, and simply planting that seed, it changes everything.
And so that's kind of my curiosity and my invitation to anyone, no matter where your work is or what space is where you're going in, and you feel the confines of that space and the people in that space. We have these subtle ways that we can invite one another to. To feel actually how sensitive we are and how sensitive this entire earth body and beings and experience is and, and just be with that, and then let that change things, you know, as opposed to us being the ones that change it.
Christine: Yeah. And I think it's interesting just in what you were talking about and that idea of, um, like in that position where the horses are standing there and they have no ropes, or we have no way of controlling them. I'm using air quotes for those of you listening to the podcast, like I feel like that feels very similar to maybe being around the business table.
Right? And you're seeing the, the person who has all the power at the front of the room and you don't know how, how to interact with them. And, um. But they're just up there untethered as well.
Like they're, but we're not, we're just not acknowledging that in each other. And, um, I also just was thinking as you were talking about how sensitive the, that horses are to us as humans and our emotions and supporting and how giving they can be without us realizing.
'cause I also grew up as a, a horse girl. And like, I definitely would not have survived my middle school and
high school years without, I can't even tell you the number of sessions I had with my horse, just like me just sitting there on the grass with it just there,
or, or, petting it. And like, I didn't know there was probably some co-regulation or some regulation happening.
I just knew I felt better. Right. But
like, I, I didn't have that, um. Sense of threat just because of how I grew up. So I was very trusting. Um, but if you bring that into business and, and you maybe have never been on the, the head side of that table, like you, you maybe don't know how to interact and engage.
So it, yeah, it's just very interesting to see how we create power dynamics and put people in places whether they belong there or not. And then maybe we uphold it because you've also seen, like, you know, the horse that knows it's in charge and it's like, oh, this is my role. And so that's the role. I'm, I'm giving you what you asked for from me in this moment.
Anyway,
we could probably go on and on, but I just, that those were a couple of things that were coming to mind as you were speaking. Um, but yeah, the, this idea of also kind of. Allowing people to be people at work because we don't know how to do it yet 'cause we haven't done it. I think it's really important to like ask questions about what that looks like or how do we support people in doing that.
If you are someone who has never been able to show up in your workspace and be vulnerable
or never been able to show up in a workspace and say, I don't know how to do that,
because that's not what's expected of you as a leader, you don't know how to do that. You also don't know how to lead from that place and let others show up with questions instead of answers or, um, you know, even like, I think in speaking with women a lot.
Our women, our like female roles get left at our office store
often. Like I can't show up and be like, I'm a mom. I can't show up and say, you know, I'm experiencing menopause. I can't show up and say all these other things, but they're a huge part of how I am showing up.
And so I think to become the next level better
as humans, but as businesses and as an industry, it's like acknowledging those things and learning to, to both lead and be led with all of those parts and pieces.
And I, I know you work a lot with the trauma aware approach, and I'm imagining that like, some of that helps us to see how to do that because we don't know what we're doing in a
lot of cases. I,
I'd love to just kind of get your thoughts on that. Like how do we, how do we really do this thing that we think we want to do?
Greta: Yeah. Yes. I mean, it's incredible because what we're asking for is radical vulnerability, which is very risky. In spaces where even timid vulnerability was not safe. So, so it's definitely the, and it's coming up again and again and again. So it's time. You know, we are in this vast space that's inviting us to really acknowledge the power that.
Comes with vulnerability and the courage that is required. And also I think, what's the word that's coming up for me is the inner awareness or discernment. Discernment is the word like that, that self knowing and being able to discern like what you can. What you can manage, what you can push in the organization you're in or what you're unwilling to be pushed by.
And I think that that's really important because if you are in a leadership position, then you have really an incredible opportunity to embody. Much deeper levels of vulnerability because then you're in a position where that can be modeled and that will change an organization. I've seen that it's essential and because there are very real power dynamics that occur if you're not in a leadership position and you want to bring your whole self and you want to.
Live in a manner where you are integrating all these different parts and you're aware of them and you understand how to clearly communicate your needs and you, and you wanna participate that way. You need to sense or at least have an awareness of the maturity of the organization. And if the organization is not as mature.
In terms of where you are, then you probably need to leave. And I say that very bluntly because I've also seen the way in which trying to integrate your whole self in an immature environment will be, it can do a lot of harm to you. And it also. I mean it, I've never seen it actually work the way that I just mentioned, because again, the, there are a lot of power dynamics at play and what we're talking about requires so much integration, which requires care, which requires communities that also have the capacity to, to hold space for that messy process of integration, which is.
Not necessarily in the workplace, but at the same time, if you don't have that anywhere else and you're attempting to do it and taking it into your workplace, it's probably gonna be really difficult. Having the sensitivity and the awareness of knowing that your work is making you feel cut off from vital aspects of yourself, that's your first cue to start listening and to start feeling into what does it feel like, you know, to, to have these other parts of me in the room and have voice.
Um, what is the, the possibility in this organization with this particular. Makeup of leadership and colleagues and, and be willing though, to, to acknowledge our personal accountability in making that call. You know,
um, because it, it requires like radical personal accountability as well of saying, I want this and if they, if it's not possible here, I know that I need to leave.
Christine: , yeah, as you were speaking of some of that and talking about, you know, how in leadership roles we can model.
Kind of this process of vulnerability and also that with this being a topic that comes up time and time again, that it's something we're ready to really be incorporating into our world. I'm just thinking of, you know, the obsession with Brene Brown that we've had and her leadership style and the books that she's written on vulnerability and, um, kind of how celebrated that's been, that it, it does feel like there is this change, this, you know, change happening.
And, um, I think right before you and I spoke last time as well, I had just read this post, um, on LinkedIn by Kate Williams from 1% for the Planet, and she was talking about this keynote that she's putting together and how. She has just decided that she, her new goal is mastery of public speaking and not just like being a good public speaker, but she has decided that mastery is what she's after.
And not kind of in a vain way, but just, you know, in a growth way. And that she went to her staff and to her colleagues and told them this goal and that they, she not only wants them to help her be accountable to this goal, but then she shared this presentation with them and asked them for her feedback and, and instead of just being the expert, like she put herself in a vulnerable, vulnerable position in saying like, I am not yet the expert I wish to be in this particular category, and I need your help to get there.
Which I think for me, when I was reading that, I just thought, wow, that is a, that's a powerful move and yeah. That is, that is bringing, you know, that essence of people to the place. Like normally we wouldn't be allowed, allowed, I'm gonna use air quotes again to, to do that, to say I as the leader don't know how everything about driving this ship.
You know, like, yeah. And I just thought, I just was, I read that and I wished that I could give her all the virtual high fives in the moment because I just, I just thought it was so great. And then the other thing she mentioned, which is a little bit of a different point, but she said it removed her option for quiet failure.
Which I also thought was bold, right? Because if she didn't tell anybody she was setting out to do this and it didn't happen, so what, like, she's already pretty awesome. We're all gonna think she's pretty awesome. We didn't know that she was going for like, awesome times 10. So it, it just was, I just, I was so awestruck by this, but I would love to hear from, from you, from your perspective, like, you know, how, how do you think that maybe shifts the dynamic and what does that invite in that space?
Greta: Hmm. So what it's funny, what's coming to mind is when we have, we don't do a lot of like riding with the horses, but occasionally I will do for specific groups. And where we're working on certain things and, and when I've got a group and we're moving across a landscape, I work with the leadership qualities of the herd and the energy of the group.
And so even though I'm the technical expert, you know, and the person who should be guiding, and I put should now in air quotes, because again, the. Leadership that is attuned is actually, it's a space of listening. It's actually who's listening the best, is the best leader as opposed to who's doing the most or telling others what to do.
And when we are moving across a landscape, certain forces have qualities of, um, you know, what they feel secure and confident in, and others are more insecure and obviously just like the group and the people. And so, for example, if I happen to be up front with a horse and we're coming across a bridge. The horse that I'm with is afraid of bridges.
Then I call in for the horse that I know is courageous and we encourage, and that horse carries the whole herd across the bridge with their energy. And the group essentially, again, they get to see it modeled by this fluid leadership quality that happens within a herd of horses. Naturally, that allows the group to move peacefully.
You know, no one's actually telling anyone what to do. We're all moving with that shared goal of moving forward safely and in peace. And when we're listening and we're sensing of, okay, who's grounded right now? Who's got, who's got capacity for creative innovation versus who is really freaking tired because their child was up all night vomiting and you know.
Once it can support in this other way right now and and being able to attune to these different dynamics that are in the room each moment as opposed also to the idea of roles, then determining the capacity of the group, but actually being able to sense and feel and have that context again, this goes back to our other conversation of how it empowers better leadership when people can bring their peopleness into the room so that we have enough context of where, who's well-resourced in this moment, in this day for the needs of the business, and we can't know that otherwise.
It's based on assumption, which again, then just puts pressure. In areas where there's not enough resource. And so again, it's whoever's listening the deepest is really embodying the highest level of leadership, in my opinion.
Christine: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, so many good things there. And we're gonna just bring Brene right back in because I don't remember which book I read, and her and her husband have, you know this, like when they're looking at who's the most resourced to do something, like when they gather at the end of their workday and they're heading into their parenting work, they're like, okay, I've got 60.
What have you got? Or, I've got 10, what have you got? And it's like their way of checking in. You know, what if you did that in the workplace? And you're like, yeah, right now in my life, I've got like 90, I'm so amped and ready for work. And there's other times where you've got 10 and that's just the reality.
But if you're still being asked for the 90 or the a hundred. You're not performing well and you know, I think this is where it comes to shifting the dynamic of work and what it looks like and what businesses are like. And then that example of the horses is so brilliant and you know, whoever decided that there's one leader in a business, like it's just it.
I understand. Like I almost feel like instead of the CEO, it should be like the chief Harmony officer, right? Because you're just sitting there kind of like co, you're almost like choreographing or you know, directing an orchestra like. You're, you're not the performer, but you are the deep listener and you are like, you're the person who's pro.
I mean, I just imagine like this super intuitive, compassionate person sitting there and being like, oh, you know, here violins, here's where you shine. Why don't you step up and then nope, nope. We're gonna bring you back down and let's come back here. Marketing it looks like you're on today. Like, yeah, that would be the leader, right?
They would just, it, it's not actually about them at all. It's about everybody getting across that bridge and like what we wanted to achieve on the other side. And I think there's just ways that business has put false expectations onto this system of leadership. Like just they, they can't meet these goals many places and many times either.
It's not. It's not acknowledging their humanness. Yeah. And so like, there's all these different things I think we could change in order to be better and like do better. But it is, it feels like we really are dismantling a lot of things to get there. And then I feel, again, we're back to that dissonance where like the people who are really comfortable in this way of being and operating, they don't, they don't know how to be here yet.
Yeah. And that's fair. But like, yeah, I don't know. I just would be so curious what could happen if we were operating in the, this other world where we are acknowledging all these things, we're giving people equal opportunities to shine and um, like one of the other things, and now I'm gonna just jump. Off course, and if you need to come back here, you can, but what I was reading about the work that you were doing is supporting all these different parts of the global supply chain and thinking about that in the tourism industry, like we have all this opportunity for supporting and growth and development and everything at certain levels of the industry.
But when you're looking at the people who support us on the ground, or you're looking at, you know, a, a cook in a village where we're traveling, like they're, they may not be having the same opportunities for growth and reflection and resources and being supported in their business, but they're equally important to the success of everybody getting across the bridge.
And so I think we're not. We haven't got there yet either. So I, again, I don't have questions. I'm not going to have one. Let's just chat about this.
Greta: I love it. So what I, what the word that's coming in is it's like we need to design space in whatever the process is or the whatever the system is that we're either building or we have influence over.
We need to allow space for relationship. Like we need to, that needs to be a fundamental piece so that again, it's okay my, it's a core value that me as a tour operator, I have an awareness of the humans that are all connected to like, that are the boards of the bridge that are all connected to this whole thing being possible.
What does that look and feel like? If that only looks and feels like an email exchange or a phone call that talks about logistics, that's probably not gonna meet that core value of, I want space to be able to relate with the humanity that my business touches, you know, and has contact with. And actually, if I build into my business model space for relationship, and again, it doesn't have to be a big complicated thing of like a conference where you all get together, but actually like being really curious about small and simple ways in which we, we embed this space for relationship through the whole process.
Then you open, it's like a garden. Then it's like everyone that's involved feels that and once and it and starts to contribute differently and it becomes much less transactional and much more related. And again, that's, that connects to everything we've been talking about as well is how do you bring humanity, like the people this into the space?
We have to, we have to redesign the systems though. And that means, that requires looking at whatever your individual role is in that and what is your sphere of influence and who do you have around you that's contributing to that in an influential way. And are they open to hear that? And are they open to explore that?
And then again, are they open to the unknown? Because what we're talking about is. Emerging systems that we haven't designed before, that we can't look back and look at the playbook and apply the formula. The formulas detach us from our humanity, and we can all feel that. And well, not all a lot of us have become necessarily desensitized from that, but again, enough of us are having enough public conversations to acknowledge that this is real and therefore it is time.
So those of us who have the awareness and have the privilege or the access to influence, whatever that system or process is, that's one of the areas where I think we have the biggest opportunity and we don't know what it will change, but it will change something. Mm-hmm.
Christine: Yeah. I, I feel like too, as you were saying, that, you know, this fear of the unknown is what kind of keeps us where we are.
I, I know I actually just had a visit with my doctor and, um, I was, have had a lot of doctors that have left their positions, like shortly after working with them. I'm like, okay, I don't think that's my fault. I think that's a coincidence. But she's like, no, I'm staying here. She's like, you know, I prefer the devil I know over the devil.
I don't know. And I just was like, oh, okay, well that's great for me in this moment. But then as you were just speaking, you know, that's kind of like, it's, it's just so easy. It's like, yes, I agree. This isn't maybe working, but I know what it is, so I'm just, I'm staying here. But I was thinking as, as the, as a tourism industry.
Many of us are here because we have this kind of adventurous spirit, right? We we're, we're curious about the unknown. Like the unknown actually is like what we're after we've been pursuing that great mystery and we love that. We don't know what's around the next bend. Like that's where our adrenaline's coming from.
And so as entrepreneurs and business owners and leaders, like maybe we're very well equipped to embark upon this journey to the unknown and be like, Hey, I, I'm okay with the fact that this wasn't working and that I don't know where I'm going, but I'm just gonna take that step. And even as I say that, like my nervous system is like, actually let's not take that step.
It's pretty scary.
Greta: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine: So like, you know, there's that part of it too. Like we, we will, we will have to recognize that it will take some support to get people. There, even if they really want to get there. And then there's a lot of people that, that won't. And so like, there's this progressive journey.
Um, but I'm, I just would be curious, like, you know, to see who would be, who would step up as the leaders to take us to the next, this next space. 'cause I also think it won't be who we think it is. Right? Yeah. I think this'll be when like something opens up and then we're like, ah, this is when, you know, the next group takes us along the way.
Greta: Yeah.
Christine: Yeah.
Greta: Absolutely. And I think that that's, I love what you, you bring in of connecting to that quality that's innate within folks who do have businesses in the tourism industry who are already related to the unknown and inviting that into the way in which you are. Managing or creating or holding your business model.
And, and again, you need discernment to know what level of uncertainty is financially viable and safe. And at the same time, I've worked for almost 20 years in the world of sustainability. And what doesn't work is trying to apply sustainability values and, um, visions and missions to the traditional business model.
It doesn't work. I mean, it's, it's not authentic. It's literally going to get you the same results without getting you the impacts of the vision and the values. And that's really hard for a lot of entrepreneurs to hear, or for a lot of business owners to hear that wanna do good with business because there's a big narrative that says you can use business as a force for good.
In my experience, business has a lot of negative impacts unless you are willing to do business very differently. And that requires courage and that requires a lot of ingenuity and innovation that happens in the field. So it's a big one. Yeah. So, but I think it's a vital one.
Christine: Yeah. And it's a big ask. 'cause it, it really, like you said, this isn't, this isn't like you can just easily apply this and go on with your life.
But like this is saying, you know. Maybe capitalism isn't health, the healthiest mode of operation for our world, which is the world we all operate in currently. Right? And so, like, it isn't, it's not easy. Like we're not just saying, oh, this is pretty easy. Try it. It's like this is gonna be really hard. And that unknown is probably really dark and like, we might not see a light for a while, and like, your boots are wet and you're probably getting bug bites and let's just keep going.
Like, I mean, I, it's not, it's not easy. And like I was just taking this training, um, with Rise on Carbon Literacy and Climate Justice and just like, you know, these, these are conversations I'm having parts and pieces of all the time. So I'm kind of comfortable with this level of discomfort. And as we were talking about the carbon literacy part, I was like, okay, well, you know, this is like science and facts and, you know, some of these are scary facts and you know, big science, but I'm okay here.
And then when we got to the climate justice aspect and we were talking about, you know, how who is being disproportionately impacted, who is causing the, these things, who, you know, who's being held accountable, how would we make the changes all of a sudden, you know, like my body didn't like it at all and it was hard.
And I was like, I want to resist this. And, and I'm someone who is ready to show up fully to do this. And yet, like I'm still really struggling. And, you know, kind of, we were talking earlier in this conversation about like pausing, recalibrating, taking a breath. Like I had to turn my zoom off and do some breath work and some yoga and like try to.
Help my nervous system through the process of witnessing this and knowing like, I've played a part in this and changes need to happen and I don't know what they are. And like this is a lot of work we're asking people to do. And I think you and I also were talking that I was working on a book on mindful leadership in the tourism industry and mindful travel.
And one of the, what I thought was the most critical chapters was, you know, your inner journey as a leader, knowing your why and your values and how you put that into your work, how that creates mindful change in the industry. And the publishers were not really interested in that. They were like, I don't understand how this relates to why, how mindful travel is good for tourism or good for our bottom line.
And I was like, okay, I see where you're coming from. And I see that we're probably on different pages, but I just wanna acknowledge like. This isn't going to be easy. And, and bringing our people ness into the business world actually means, like it does start here first, and it actually starts with facing some hard things.
It also comes with facing our own insecurities and baggage and trauma. And like, we bring that with us to the table every, every day, whether we recognize it or not. And we've kind of been able to be safe in this business as usual world, like where we can just go through the motions and show up and we know one plus one is two and we just keep moving and then all of a sudden like this Ask is hard.
Yeah. And I think beautiful but hard.
Greta: Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely the, like the messy middle and the gray areas. Of removing even the, the possibility of a black and white or a good, even a good and bad. And that's, that's also really challenging. You know, I, I had to leave the corporate work initially because it got so dense in my body.
It became so heavy in terms of, you know, working on modern day slavery issues, and child labor and poverty, and all of these, like, again, pick any product. And my work was actually tracing it to what's happening in the field in the factory and the humans, and meeting them and knowing them, and knowing also the executives, and knowing the factory owners, and knowing the complexity that connects to why there's so much harm being done.
And early in my career, it was so heavy because I didn't have a practice to process it or to move it beyond my body. And the only reason in which I still do that work is because I, I started to learn that those practices, and actually a lot of the work that it was the horses that took me into the personal trauma, collective trauma and ancestral trauma study work really deep.
And then integrating all of that. And then, I mean, when you start doing that work and study and awareness and then attunement and then somatic practice, you can't separate it. You know? You can't not bring that into your writing, into the corporate room, into the work with the whole, it's everywhere. It's in your family.
It needs to be. And so it was highly beneficial because what I actually found is when I started to work with that material that was in my lineage, you know, that was in my, in my lifetime, my lifespan, in the lineage of my ancestors and in my culture, then I could go back into this work with buoyancy. And again, connecting to that creative capacity to, to believe that we can, we can do something different.
We can design something different, and we can be here for that. And that's the energy actually that we need. Because again, that's what helps us move through the density of. The reality, which is it is very complex and challenging and heavy when we start to witness it wholeheartedly. And so having a process to move it through and out of the body, and also having that self-awareness of how it impacts you and what hooks you and what, um, and what brings you alive again, you know, what connects you to your life force and your joy and your innate kind of, uh, energetic, intuitive flow, then that that's your resource that you call in.
So it becomes a very active. Engagement, you know, because we have to live with it all. There's no, as you mentioned, there's no arriving. It's the path, you know, this is the path it's meant to be. Mm-hmm.
Christine: Oh gosh. Thank you. I feel like I would love to continue on with this conversation, but we have already landed at the end of our time together, but I just was thinking what a gift for the, like, I don't remember, it's eight minutes, 12 minutes speed dating moment at the, the conference where, in which like there was just enough of a moment we were like, both of us were just like, there's something else here and I'm so grateful for this platform that allowed us to be able to explore whatever else, you know, was surfacing in that moment.
And I really, really am grateful for that.
Greta: Yeah, likewise. It's so, so reciprocal and oh, my heart feels so light. And happy to Thank you. Have this chance to converse. Thank you.
Christine: Well, um, before we end our conversation, I have just a few rapid fire, rapid fire ish questions to wrap up our conversation. Um, so the first one is, what are you reading right now?
Greta: Right now? Ooh. I just picked up one that I've read many times, but it's called The Soul of Money. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. Yes,
Christine: it's
Greta: a
Christine: good one. It's so good. It's very, very good. I would highly recommend that, uh, especially to our listeners 'cause there's some Yep. Aspects of it that I think would be very resonant.
Um, okay. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel something lavender?
Greta: Probably an essential oil or a small lotion or something.
Christine: Yeah. Uh, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?
Greta: Hmm. I mean, potatoes popped in my mind, which is really funny, but it now, it links me right now to home in Pennsylvania where we grew potatoes, Ireland, where my grandmother was born, and where I also Yeah.
Reminds me of the potatoes there. And here in Chile, there's incredible potatoes. Yeah.
Christine: Perfect. Which it's like 27 food groups in and of itself. Exactly. I, the last time was in Peru. They were like, it's potatoes, 10 ways. I'm like, oh, my dream college diet. So like it. Um, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?
Greta: Oh, hmm.
My friend, he was actually my father's best friend. His name was, um, David Presti. And he was kind of like an uncle to me. And he, he had an ease in traveling all over the place and always had stories and it probably was planted by him. I didn't travel much when I was a kid 'cause we grew up on the farm, but we hosted, uh, international volunteer groups as well.
So that also probably planted some seeds. Folks from all over the world came.
Christine: If you could share an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?
Greta: Oh, just one. My daughter who's
Christine: five. Yeah. Um, a new question I'm adding in for this season. Uh, when you think about the soul of travel, what does that mean to you?
Greta: Uh, it actually what comes is our like ancestral thread of migration and the migratory qualities of humanity that are kind of atrophied actually. 'cause a lot of people don't roam the world as we once did.
Christine: Mm. That sounds like a book I would like to read. So put that out there. Um, and then the last one is, the Soul of Travel is a space for recognizing women we admire.
Who is one person that you would like to celebrate in this space?
Greta: Hmm. My friend here in Chile, Karen, who's the founder of Monkey Chile, she is incredible. I refer to her as a force of nature. She's the one that actually founded mua, which is how we met. And so yeah, Karen Sandoval.
Christine: Thank you and thank you again for this beautiful conversation.
I really appreciate it.
Greta: Oh, thank you. This was wonderful.
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